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he New York Times
April 26, 2008
Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats
By NEELA BANERJEE
FORT RILEY, Kan. When Specialist Jeremy Hall held a meeting last July for
atheists and freethinkers at Camp Speicher in Iraq, he was excited, he said,
to see an officer attending.
But minutes into the talk, the officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, began to
berate Specialist Hall and another soldier about atheism, Specialist Hall
wrote in a sworn statement. People like you are not holding up the
Constitution and are going against what the founding fathers, who were
Christians, wanted for America! Major Welborn said, according to the
statement.
Major Welborn told the soldiers he might bar them from re-enlistment and
bring charges against them, according to the statement.
Last month, Specialist Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation,
an advocacy group, filed suit in federal court in Kansas, alleging that
Specialist Halls right to be free from state endorsement of religion under
the First Amendment had been violated and that he had faced retaliation for
his views. In November, he was sent home early from Iraq because of threats
from fellow soldiers.
Eileen Lainez, a spokeswoman for the Defense Department, declined to comment
on the case, saying, The department does not discuss pending litigation.
Specialist Halls lawsuit is the latest incident to raise questions about
the militarys religion guidelines. In 2005, the Air Force issued new
regulations in response to complaints from cadets at the Air Force Academy
that evangelical Christian officers used their positions to proselytize. In
general, the armed forces have regulations, Ms. Lainez said, that respect
the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to
hold no beliefs.
To Specialist Hall and other critics of the military, the guidelines have
done little to change a culture they say tilts heavily toward evangelical
Christianity. Controversies have continued to flare, largely over tactics
used by evangelicals to promote their faith. Perhaps the most high-profile
incident involved seven officers, including four generals, who appeared, in
uniform and in violation of military regulations, in a 2006 fund-raising
video for the Christian Embassy, an evangelical Bible study group.
They dont trust you because they think you are unreliable and might break,
since you dont have God to rely on, Specialist Hall said of those who
proselytize in the military. The message is, Its a Christian nation, and
you need to recognize that.
Soft-spoken and younger looking than his 23 years, Specialist Hall began a
chapter of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers at Camp
Speicher, near Tikrit, to support others like him.
At the July meeting, Major Welborn told the soldiers they had disgraced
those who had died for the Constitution, Specialist Hall said. When he
finished, Major Welborn said, according to the statement: I love you guys;
I just want the best for you. One day you will see the truth and know what I
mean.
Major Welborn declined to comment beyond saying, Id love to tell my side
of the story because its such a false story.
But Timothy Feary, the other soldier at the meeting, said in an e-mail
message: Jeremy is telling the truth. I was there and witnessed
everything.
It is unclear how widespread religious discrimination or proselytizing is in
the armed forces, constitutional law experts and leaders of veterans groups
said. No one has independently studied the issue, and service members are
reluctant to come forward because of possible backlash, those experts said.
There are 1.36 million active duty service members, according to the
Pentagon, and since 2005, it has received 50 formal complaints of religious
discrimination, Ms. Lainez said.
In an e-mail statement, Bill Carr, the Defense Departments deputy under
secretary for military personnel policy, said he saw near universal
compliance with the departments policy.
But Mikey Weinstein, a retired Air Force judge advocate general and founder
of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said the official statistics
masked the great number of those who do not report violations for fear of
retribution. Since the Air Force Academy scandal began in 2004, Mr.
Weinstein said, he has been contacted by more than 5,500 service members
and, occasionally, military families about incidents of religious
discrimination. He said 96 percent of the complainants were Christians, and
the majority of those were Protestants.
Complaints include prayers in Jesus name at mandatory functions, which
violates military regulations, and officers proselytizing subordinates to be
born again. After getting the complainants unit and command information,
Mr. Weinstein said, he calls his contacts in the military to try to correct
the situation.
Religion is inextricably intertwined with their jobs, Mr. Weinstein said.
Youre promoted by who you pray with.
Specialist Hall came to atheism after years as a Christian. He was raised
Baptist by his grandmother in Richlands, N.C., a town of less than 1,000
people. She read the Bible to him every night, and he said he joined the
Army to make something of myself.
I thought going to Iraq was right because we had God on our side, he said
in an interview near Fort Riley.
In the summer of 2005, after his first deployment to Iraq, Specialist Hall
became friends with soldiers with atheist leanings. Their questions about
faith prompted him to read the Bible more closely, which bred doubts that
deepened over time.
There are so many religions in the world, he said. Everyone thinks hes
right. Who is right? Even people who are Christians think other Christians
are wrong.
Specialist Hall said he did not advertise his atheism. But his views became
apparent during his second deployment in 2006. At a Thanksgiving meal,
someone at his table asked everyone to pray. Specialist Hall did not join
in, explaining to a sergeant that he did not believe in God. The sergeant
got angry, he said, and told him to go to another table.
After his run-in with Major Welborn, Specialist Hall did not file a
complaint with the Armys Equal Opportunity Office because, he said, he was
mistrustful of his superior officers. Instead, he told leaders of the
Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, who put him in touch with
Mr. Weinstein. In November 2007, Specialist Hall was sent home early from
Iraq after being repeatedly threatened by other soldiers. I caution you
that although your legal issues are yours and yours alone, I have heard
many people disagree with you, and this may be a cause for some of the
perceived threats, wrote Sgt. Maj. Kevin Nolan in Specialist Halls
counseling for his departure.
Though with a different unit now at Fort Riley, Specialist Hall said the
backlash had continued. He has a no-contact order with a sergeant who,
without provocation, threatened to bust him in the mouth. Another sergeant
allegedly told Specialist Hall that as an atheist, he was not entitled to
religious freedom because he had no religion.
Responding to questions about Specialist Halls experience at Fort Riley,
the staff judge advocate, Col. Arnold Scott, said in an e-mail message, In
accordance with Army policy, Fort Riley is committed t
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Zolpitald <zsorbitald@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html
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Real Christians would've killed him dead on sight, so it
only goes to prove that Americans are, in practice, hard-
line Anti-Christian Atheists, no matter what meaningless
names they call themselves, or epithets they call others,
"atheist", "christian", it makes no difference. The whole
world is damned in Hell. That's why we're all here in Hell,
because we are all damned because of our sins, our Atheism,
literally, our without-Theosism. Thus all mortals struggle,
suffer, and die, without exception, because we _deserve_ it.
We earned it, struggle, suffering, death, being the reward
of sin to the third and fourth generation (incarnation) of
the un-Godly hypocrites (Atheists, Christians, slack-jawed
cowards, murderers). Thus we're all cast alive here in the
lake of Fire. The lucky ones are stillborn, but such luck
doesn't last long. They eventually get kicked out again,
as must we all. Men are evil no matter what they believe,
and never was a more egregiously corrupt, super-powerful
empire in the history of the world, than the U.S.A. & Co.
Jesus called them the harlot of Babylon, the prostitute of
the world for sale to the highest bidder. And Jesus called
the U.S. Military & Co. the invincible beast she rides. So
who can serve in the military, yet not be content with the
wages of sin? Be content with your wages, sinner, Atheist!
The good news is Jesus was crucified at Calvary in 31 AD,
thereby forcing this whole evil world into the battle of
Armageddon unto the end of the world, and every Atheist,
every Chrino (Christian-in-name-only), into Dark Limbo,
outer darkness, where dead Atheists are forced day and
night relentlessly to see and feel the burning *SHAME*
of their deeply-indebted CONSCIENCE in superconscious
clarity, and also to see that terrifying, exceedingly
harsh, perfectly Just, reward of Judgment in the Light
staring back at them from across the impassable abyss.
Even as we speak, Atheists are losing their Atheist jobs
en masse, Atheist teachers are getting fired, "laid off",
Atheists are losing their homes, losing all hope, their
families, their countries. Atheists are struggling, and
losing, and dying, and that makes me one very happy man,
because I know it's God's Universal Law of Justice, i.e.
of karma and (re)incarnation, at work. Thus I'm content.
I pray oil exceeds $400/bbl by summmer, and the US Dollar
collapses completely, all banks, all markets, all stores,
all warehouses, all shipping lines, all factories, all
businesses, all power plants, all everything of this evil
world shuts down permanently--and I pray it happens soon.
I pray that earthquakes, floods, fires, famine, pestilence,
all manner of plagues and hardships annihilate this damned
evil Empire, to clear the way for the Son of Man to return
with the Dark clouds, all just exactly like the bible says.
Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/
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On Apr 27, 1:23 pm, Anonymous Remailer
<mixmas...@gpftor3.privacyfoundation.de> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Zolpitald <zsorbit...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Real Christians would've killed him dead on sight, so it
only goes to prove that Americans are, in practice, hard-
line Anti-Christian Atheists, no matter what meaningless
names they call themselves, or epithets they call others,
"atheist", "christian", it makes no difference. The whole
world is damned in Hell. That's why we're all here in Hell,
because we are all damned because of our sins, our Atheism,
literally, our without-Theosism. Thus all mortals struggle,
suffer, and die, without exception, because we _deserve_ it.
So, Danny-boy, how many atheists have you killed on sight? Are you a
"True Christian"?
-Alan
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On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:23:18 +0200, Anonymous Remailer wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Zolpitald <zsorbitald@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Real Christians would've killed him dead on sight, so it
only goes to prove that Americans are, in practice, hard-
line Anti-Christian Atheists,
So, anybody who is not a "real Christian" is a "hard-line Anti-Christian
Atheist"? Given that an "atheist" doesn't believe in a god, you are
missing all of the non-Christian theists.
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, if the bible commands Jews or
Christians to "kill atheists on sight." It wouldn't surprise me if it
did, at least in the OT, where God commands his people to kill somebody
for picking up a stick on the Sabbath Day. If so, it would be but one
more reason that Christians are like a plague on humanity.
--
MarkA
(This space temporarily unavailable)
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MarkA wrote:
Anonymous Remailer wrote:
So, anybody who is not a "real Christian" is a "hard-line
Anti-Christian Atheist"? Given that an "atheist" doesn't
believe in a god, you are missing all of the non-Christian
theists.
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, if the bible commands Jews
or Christians to "kill atheists on sight." It wouldn't surprise
me if it did, at least in the OT, where God commands his people
to kill somebody for picking up a stick on the Sabbath Day. If
so, it would be but one more reason that Christians are like a
plague on humanity.
Luke 19:27, Jesus speaking: ``But those mine enemies, which would
not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them
before me.''
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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Ben Goren wrote:
MarkA wrote:
Luke 19:27, Jesus speaking: ``But those mine enemies, which would
not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them
before me.''
Cheers,
b&
.... OK ... I'll pay it ... Jesus _*was*_ speaking ... but you've managed
to totally ignore the context and the fact that he was telling a parable
....
--
Rob Sandilands PM
Warwick Lodge No 160 UGLQ
'I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!'
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Ben Goren wrote:
... OK ... I'll pay it ... Jesus _*was*_ speaking ... but you've managed
to totally ignore the context and the fact that he was telling a parable
...
--
Rob Sandilands PM
Warwick Lodge No 160 UGLQ
'I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!'
Do you also believe in Santa and the Wizard of Oz???
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On Apr 28, 5:58=A0am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Do you also believe in Santa and the Wizard of Oz???- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I am a Pastafarian. I believe in the FSM. Does that make me an
atheist?
May His Noodliness make himself known to you, make his face to shine
upon you, and give you peace.
Amen.
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On Apr 28, 3:10 am, Rob Sandilands <robs...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
you've managed
to totally ignore the context
He might have a future in Morals & Dogma quotes.
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On Apr 28, 2:58 am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Do you also believe in Santa and the Wizard of Oz???
And the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.
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Larry The Mason from Holbrook wrote:
On Apr 28, 2:58 am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
And the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.
.... let's see ... I know Santa personally - he's my little brother ...
we do have wizards here in Oz - the one who met the little girl from
Kansas was a fake ... the tooth fairy is what the locals call the gay
dentist ... and the easter bunny is a big fake - we Australians know
that the real distributor of chocolate goodies is actually a bilby ...
.... ( exit ... stage left ... heading for library to find a book on
political correctness ... ) ...
--
Rob Sandilands PM
Warwick Lodge No 160 UGLQ
'I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!'
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Larry The Mason from Holbrook wrote:
On Apr 28, 3:10 am, Rob Sandilands <robs...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
He might have a future in Morals & Dogma quotes.
.... quite possibly, Larry ... I've passed his name on the the guys in
the Misquotations Section of the Conspiracy Propagation Department ...
they'll give him a call when they get back from the long weekend break
they're taking at the Denver Airport and Day Spa ...
--
Rob Sandilands PM
Warwick Lodge No 160 UGLQ
'I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!'
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Rob Sandilands wrote:
Ben Goren wrote:
... OK ... I'll pay it ... Jesus _*was*_ speaking ... but you've
managed to totally ignore the context and the fact that he was
telling a parable ...
Yes. Jesus was telling a parable.
Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us? In Jesus's telling of the
parable, who spoke the words that Jesus was saying? And whom did
that character represent in the ``real'' world?
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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jl wrote:
Bill M wrote:
I am a Pastafarian. I believe in the FSM. Does that make me an
atheist?
May His Noodliness make himself known to you, make his face to
shine upon you, and give you peace.
Amen.
You are clearly no Pastafarian. I'm a unicornitarian, myself, but
even /I/ know that no Pastafarian would /ever/ sign off with that
word.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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jl wrote:
You are clearly no Pastafarian. I'm a unicornitarian, myself, but
even /I/ know that no Pastafarian would /ever/ sign off with that
word.
Cheers,
b&
Everybody knows that you Unicornitarians are always horny. You just want a
piece of pasta. Shame on you.
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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Billzz wrote:
Everybody knows that you Unicornitarians are always horny. You just
want a piece of pasta. Shame on you.
Odd. I wonder why Maever, who created the universe Last Thursday and who's
picture once adorned a web site (or so I remember) put those silly ideas in
your heads. I can see her doing it if the memories were of people believing
in the FSM or the IPU for thoousands of year, but why such a short span,
shorter even than her revealation.
If there is a Next Thursday, as some believe, perhpas we will have clear
memories of the Pink, Invisible, single horned, flying, Gemelli monster.
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jl wrote:
On Apr 28, 5:58 am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I am a Pastafarian. I believe in the FSM. Does that make me an
atheist?
May His Noodliness make himself known to you, make his face to shine
upon you, and give you peace.
Amen.
.... may your pasta always be al dente and may your pasta sauce be
piquantly seasoned ...
--
Rob Sandilands PM
Warwick Lodge No 160 UGLQ
'I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!'
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Billzz wrote:
Everybody knows that you Unicornitarians are always horny. You
just want a piece of pasta. Shame on you.
First of all, pasta is for the Pastafarians. We Unicornitarians
prefer the sublime delights of ham and pineapple pizza,
thankyouverymuch.
And what's worng with being horny?
Hmmm?
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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Mike Painter wrote:
Odd. I wonder why Maever, who created the universe Last
Thursday and who's picture once adorned a web site (or so I
remember) put those silly ideas in your heads. I can see her
doing it if the memories were of people believing in the FSM or
the IPU for thoousands of year, but why such a short span,
shorter even than her revealation. If there is a Next Thursday,
as some believe, perhpas we will have clear memories of the
Pink, Invisible, single horned, flying, Gemelli monster.
First of all, it's not Maever, it's Reveam, and she created the
Universe last Saturday.
....and you clearly go downhill from there, so there's no point in
even pretending to address any of it, you smelly Last Thursdayist.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:28:09 -0700, Ben Goren <ben@trumpetpower.com>
wrote:
Billzz wrote:
First of all, pasta is for the Pastafarians. We Unicornitarians
prefer the sublime delights of ham and pineapple pizza,
thankyouverymuch.
And what's worng with being horny?
Wasn't he the eight dwarf?
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Ben Goren wrote:
Wasn't he the eight dwarf?
Yeah, but he's not all that...impressive, shall we say? And for
rather obvious reasons, what with being a dwarf and all. It's why
you never hear much about him.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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