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Hello,
I am in Kansas.. my 19 year old son sold his 1995 Camaro last night.
Tonight he gets a call from the buyers step father indicating that
they want to return the car because the insurance is more than they
can afford.
My son informed him that he no longer had the cash as he used it to
put down on another car. After some back and forth talking the step
father grunted "Well I will have to talk to my lawyer!" and hung up.
I made sure that my son got a signed bill of sale and even had SOLD AS
IS on it, although the cars condition in not in question.. at least
not yet.
I think there is no problem and the buyer has no leg to stand on..
except it is possible that the buyer might be a minor. We are not
sure.. but he did look young and it was his step father that called
wanting to return the car.
The kid borrowed the money from someone to buy the car as the step
father said he could not afford to pay back the loan and the
insurance. So that would seem to indicate to me an adult was involved
in at least the loan of the $4,500.00.
Anybody have any comments on this? If nothing else we will be checking
ID for any car buyers in the future!
Fred
fredg@SPAM_ME_NOT.fastmail.fm
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Fred wrote:
I think there is no problem and the buyer has no leg to stand on..
except it is possible that the buyer might be a minor. We are not
sure.. but he did look young and it was his step father that called
wanting to return the car.
If a car is considered a "necessity" then the minor may not be
able to recind the contract.
I don't see any other basis for your son to be required to
accept the car or return the payment. But I'm not a lawyer.
--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.
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Hello,
I am in Kansas.. my 19 year old son sold his 1995 Camaro last night.
Tonight he gets a call from the buyers step father indicating that
they want to return the car because the insurance is more than they
can afford.
My son informed him that he no longer had the cash as he used it to
put down on another car. After some back and forth talking the step
father grunted "Well I will have to talk to my lawyer!" and hung up.
I made sure that my son got a signed bill of sale and even had SOLD AS
IS on it, although the cars condition in not in question.. at least
not yet.
I think there is no problem and the buyer has no leg to stand on..
except it is possible that the buyer might be a minor. We are not
sure.. but he did look young and it was his step father that called
wanting to return the car.
The kid borrowed the money from someone to buy the car as the step
father said he could not afford to pay back the loan and the
insurance. So that would seem to indicate to me an adult was involved
in at least the loan of the $4,500.00.
Anybody have any comments on this? If nothing else we will be checking
ID for any car buyers in the future!
Fred
fredg@SPAM_ME_NOT.fastmail.fm
If the buyer is indeed a minor, he may very well have a right to
rescind, and his stepfather would be on solid footing in helping him
enforce that right. If he does get his lawyer involved, you will need
one as well.
A minor's right to rescind an agreement is close to absolute, with the
few common exceptions being contracts to obtain necessaries of life
and situations in which the minor is married or emancipated.
Courts may find that straight rescission would be unfair to you and
order some amount of restitution to prevent unjust enrichment on the
part of the minor or undue hardship on your part. But you are going to
need a lawyer to pursue an argument like that.
--
Not a lawyer,
Chris Green
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Fred <fred@albert.usd253.org> wrote:
I am in Kansas.. my 19 year old son sold his 1995 Camaro last night.
Tonight he gets a call from the buyers step father indicating that
they want to return the car because the insurance is more than they
can afford.
[snip]
I think there is no problem and the buyer has no leg to stand on..
except it is possible that the buyer might be a minor. We are not
sure.. but he did look young and it was his step father that called
wanting to return the car.
Well, not being able to afford the insurance is _not_ a good reason
for rescinding the sale.
If the buyer is a minor (under 18), he _might_ be able to rescind the
sale. Generally contracts made by minors are voidable, which means
the whole deal is undone -- the minor gives your son back the car and
your son gives him back the money.
But there's an exception. Minors _can_ make valid contracts for the
purchase of "necessaries". That includes food, clothing, shelter, but
can also include education, and might include a car. If the minor
needs the car to commute to work or even to school, it might be a
"necessary" under the law.
If the minor (or his stepfather) goes to court over this, the most
they will get is an order requiring your son to take back the car and
give back the money. But if he doesn't have anything to pay it back
with, they'll have a hard time collecting it.
I think the "right" thing to do if the buyer really is a minor is to
make a deal of some sort. First of all, the minor gives back the car.
You don't want him driving it and maybe getting into an accident which
would make it impossible to sell. Then your son tries to re-sell the
car, and pays the minor back the money as soon as he re-sells it. If
he can't resell it right away, he should probably agree to a payment
plan where he pays the minor so much a month until it's all repaid.
That's really all they'll get if they go to court anyway.
And btw, the minor could probably do almost as well by turning around
and selling the car himself.
If the buyer _isn't_ a minor, then they really don't have a leg to
stand on.
This is for discussion purposes only, and is not legal advice. I'm
not a lawyer. If you want legal advice, hire a lawyer.
--
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and
to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising
liberty and justice for all.
Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.
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Hello,
I am in Kansas.. my 19 year old son sold his 1995 Camaro last night.
Tonight he gets a call from the buyers step father indicating that
they want to return the car because the insurance is more than they
can afford.
The Buyer's inability to obtain Reasonably Priced Insurance for his Newly
Purchased Car is No One's Problem but his own and has No Effect on an
Otherwise Valid Sales Contract...
My son informed him that he no longer had the cash as he used it to
put down on another car. After some back and forth talking the step
father grunted "Well I will have to talk to my lawyer!" and hung up.
So he can afford a Lawyer but not Insurance?
Tell him to be sure his Lawyer gets Your Name spelled right...
Unless there's some flavor of "Buyer Regret" Statute(s), applicable to
Kansas Motor Vehicle Sales, which, like those governing... say... Health
Club Memberships, allow a "Cooling Off Period" of 2... 3... 5... Days to
Rescind, StepKid has a Shiny Near-New Camaro to Park in The Driveway where
he can charge the NeighborKids to OOOHH, AAAHH, and Wax same...
Maybe he can charge enough "Admission" to Afford Insurance...
[Snip]
The kid borrowed the money from someone to buy the car as the step
father said he could not afford to pay back the loan and the
insurance.
A GIANT So What... The StepDad Co-Signing a Loan for his Minor StepChild,
OR the Lender Loaning Money to a Person Under The Disability of Youth in No
Way Effects the Rights & Privileges of the Person eventually receiving The
Proceeds of that Possibly Invalid Loan Agreement...
So that would seem to indicate to me an adult was involved
in at least the loan of the $4,500.00.
Would seem so... but No One on Your End need waste Three Seconds
Contemplating the Question...
Anybody have any comments on this? If nothing else we will be checking
ID for any car buyers in the future!
Well, amongst all the Grief & Discontent Above, I don't see any "Privity
of Contract" WRT to StepDad... that is, Who The Hell is he?? What *Standing*
does he have to Step In For, and on behalf of, StepKid - whether MINOR
StepKid or not - Negotiate/ReNegotiate/Rescind, ad nauseam, a Sales Contract
between Your Son and his?
Why would you Trouble Yourself to "Check [the] ID" of Prospective Buyers
of your Property?
Does Kansas require U.S. Citizenship for all Private Party Sales of
Goods, Services, and Property? A Commercial Transaction Number tattooed on
either the Forehead or Right Arm?
Fred
Naughtius "ID?? We Don' Gotta Cho' No Steenkin' ID!!" Maximus
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Hello,
I am in Kansas.. my 19 year old son sold his 1995 Camaro last night.
Tonight he gets a call from the buyers step father indicating that
they want to return the car because the insurance is more than they
can afford.
My son informed him that he no longer had the cash as he used it to
put down on another car. After some back and forth talking the step
father grunted "Well I will have to talk to my lawyer!" and hung up.
I made sure that my son got a signed bill of sale and even had SOLD AS
IS on it, although the cars condition in not in question.. at least
not yet.
I think there is no problem and the buyer has no leg to stand on..
except it is possible that the buyer might be a minor. We are not
sure.. but he did look young and it was his step father that called
wanting to return the car.
The kid borrowed the money from someone to buy the car as the step
father said he could not afford to pay back the loan and the
insurance. So that would seem to indicate to me an adult was involved
in at least the loan of the $4,500.00.
Anybody have any comments on this? If nothing else we will be checking
ID for any car buyers in the future!
Fred
fredg@SPAM_ME_NOT.fastmail.fm
What about the title, was everything signed over to the new owner, if
so, who is shown on the title as the new owner.
Also, how was his dad involved in the origanal transaction, did he
give him the money? Did dad give his permission to buy the car?
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In article <htq480t7tlvrigoio71bf7k3v5ebohdef2@4ax.com>,
Barry Gold <bgold@nyx.net> wrote:
First of all, the minor gives back the car.
You don't want him driving it and maybe getting into an accident which
would make it impossible to sell.
Wouldn't that also make it impossible to rescind the contract? Or
does a minor have the ability to make a comtract to purchase
something, use it up or otherwise destroy it, and then get his money
back in return for something worthless?
Seth
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In article <g9gb80109poms6jftvsje9gaqqepahe1vd@4ax.com>,
Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com> wrote:
In article <htq480t7tlvrigoio71bf7k3v5ebohdef2@4ax.com>,
Barry Gold <bgold@nyx.net> wrote:
Wouldn't that also make it impossible to rescind the contract? Or
does a minor have the ability to make a comtract to purchase
something, use it up or otherwise destroy it, and then get his money
back in return for something worthless?
This issue comes up periodically in misc.legal.moderated and a few
cases have been posted in the past. Many states have elected not
to follow the strict rule that would allow a minor to take advantage
of an adult by buying property, abusing it, then voiding the contract.
A boy in Tennessee bought a truck and sued for a full refund after he
broke it. The court said that's not right. The boy is entitled to a
refund of the value of the wreck, not the original vehicle. Dodson v.
Shrader, 824 S.W.2d 545 (Tenn. 1992).
--
John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)
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