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I'm hoping somebody here can help me out. The situation basically goes
like this:
I live in a house with two good friends. The landlord allowed us to
move in a few days before the official date that the "lease" began (May
1st 2005). The deal was that the landlord would come over and we'd
sign the lease on May 1st. We were responsible for gas, electric, and
water/sewage.
Fast forward to the end of July. Our landlord has yet to bring us a
lease and we're very comfortably settled in. He's cancelled on us
almost 10 times now. Just this Friday he said he'd come over Sunday
morning at 10am and never showed. When we called him about it, he
said: "You were supposed to call me when you wanted me to come over";
even though HE was the one who said he'd be over at 10am.
Also, we've never seen this water bill. The story was that it would
come to the house under his wife's name and we'd pay it... where is it?
This is some pretty shady stuff.
What kind of legal trouble can we get into if we keep living in this
house?
What could he possibly be up to? Why is he avoiding giving us a lease?
What can we do in regard to getting out of the house?
This is in Pennsylvania. Help.
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I'm hoping somebody here can help me out. The situation basically goes
like this:
I live in a house with two good friends. The landlord allowed us to
move in a few days before the official date that the "lease" began (May
1st 2005). The deal was that the landlord would come over and we'd
sign the lease on May 1st. We were responsible for gas, electric, and
water/sewage.
Fast forward to the end of July. Our landlord has yet to bring us a
lease and we're very comfortably settled in. He's cancelled on us
almost 10 times now. Just this Friday he said he'd come over Sunday
morning at 10am and never showed. When we called him about it, he
said: "You were supposed to call me when you wanted me to come over";
even though HE was the one who said he'd be over at 10am.
Also, we've never seen this water bill. The story was that it would
come to the house under his wife's name and we'd pay it... where is it?
This is some pretty shady stuff.
What kind of legal trouble can we get into if we keep living in this
house?
What could he possibly be up to? Why is he avoiding giving us a lease?
What can we do in regard to getting out of the house?
This is in Pennsylvania. Help.
IANAL, but I think that without a lease, you are legally month-to-month
tenants. You have some protection, as you are legal tenants, but you
don't have the protection of a year long lease. Look up the month-to-month
tenancy laws in your state, those are what you (and your landlord) will
abide by.
If you want a lease, call your landlord, ask him to set a time for you to
meet to sign the lease, and all of you go to HIM to sign it. I don't know
why he doesn't make more of an effort to do this, either he's disorganized
or ultra casual, or he wants the ability to kick you out at any time
(eviction is much easier with month to month tenancies).
As for the water bill -- Send him a registered letter asking for the bill,
and keep a copy. If he still doesn't produce it, call the water company
and give them your address and see if the water bill can be put in your name
as of the date you call, NOT retroactively to the date you moved in. If
the landlord wants the past money, he can give you a bill, but you don't
want to be made responsible for a bill without knowing exactly what is
overdue, etc.
HTH,
Donna
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In article <n0qfe197mbncasl15k7ugsdlgv9smubj8f@4ax.com>,
fjmorales@gmail.com wrote:
This is some pretty shady stuff.
What kind of legal trouble can we get into if we keep living in this
house?
None that I can think of. The landlord is taking all the
risk. In some locations, in the absence of a lease, state
renters laws kick in that gives you a defacto month to month
lease. In that case, if you bail out, make sure you give
at least 60 days of written notice before leaving.
What could he possibly be up to? Why is he avoiding giving us a lease?
Sounds like the guy is just lax. Caught up in the thick of
thin things.
What can we do in regard to getting out of the house?
You could probably just walk out and leave it. Your biggest
risk would be if you put down a deposit or pre-paid any rent.
-john-
--
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John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
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<fjmorales@gmail.com> wrote:
What kind of legal trouble can we get into if we keep living in this
house?
What could he possibly be up to? Why is he avoiding giving us a lease?
I'm guessing he's a landlord that prefers not to have things
in writing. I'm not sure if Pennsylvania requires a written
rental agreement. (In California, you'd fall under a set of
default landlord/tenant rules, including a 30 day notice
requirement were he to want to eject you.)
I would not jump to the conclusion that he is shady as opposed
to merely flaky.
Steve
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On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:46:20 -0400, "Donna"
<youdontknowmenopam@spamproof.com> wrote:
As for the water bill -- Send him a registered letter asking for the bill,
and keep a copy. If he still doesn't produce it, call the water company
and give them your address and see if the water bill can be put in your name
as of the date you call, NOT retroactively to the date you moved in. If
the landlord wants the past money, he can give you a bill, but you don't
want to be made responsible for a bill without knowing exactly what is
overdue, etc.
Good advice, but I would add one caveat. In some areas, the landlord
is legally required to provide water at no cost to the tenant. (That
was true when I lived in suburban Cleveland, for instance.)
Before calling the water company and taking responsibility for the
billing, the tenant should call the city and ask if there is any
ordinance making the cost of water the landlord's responsibility.
--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
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fjmora: ...he said we would sign lease May 1st.
We pay gas, electric, water-sewer. ... August now.
...no lease signed. ...he cancelled 10 [TEN!]times.
...now says "You were supposed to call..."
...never received water bill ... Pennsylvania.
I have no legal training.
1. He is getting his rent and other utilities paid.
The fact that you have not received the water bill,
and so have not paid it, is a weapon he could use,
but water bills are often quarterly, so it might
not be overdue yet.
2. There is no good reason why he cancels 10 times.
He likely wants to be ready for any quick eviction,
or a strong position for possible neglect.
Whether he is ominous, or some super-flake,
you don't want to be under his thumb.
3. If you want to stay, you might check dockets at
the city court for his name. You might find
evictions, counterclaims, or other actions, even
criminal. If you never signed a lease, then you
can leave within a fairly short time, depending
on the law in PA, and unless there is a fixed-term
oral lease.
4. Find out if it's legal in PA to record conversations
that you are part of, in person and on the phone.
If you get strong evidence in such a recording,
execute an affidavit that summarizes key information,
including the equipment used, the time, and any other
witnesses; all this to validate the recording.
(Also keep available the actual equipment used.)
5. General affidavits by each tenant could be of value.
"Contemporary recollection recorded" has more value
than present recollection of the past.
A registered letter has limited value, since the
contents are not proven. If you prepare an affidavit
summarizing the contents before you send the letter,
then you have something. But telegrams or recorded
phone calls are of more value. (an audio-recorded
fax can be useful)
6. A lease should always be in writing, signed by
landlord and tenants, and including any significant
amendments at that time, or which are agreed to later.
You need an hour with a lawyer who represents tenants
(and not landlords).
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