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I'm in Maryland, Baltimore County, and I've learned that the president
of our Homeowners Association has gotten the gardening company that we
employ to mow her lawn, and the snowplowing contractor that we employ
to shovel her sidewalk. In return it seems she signed 3-year
contracts with these companies, which apparently a trusting board
agreed to. AIUI, such practices are common, but....
She's not paying for these services. It seems to me that makes them
kickbacks. Since she agreed to a 3-year contract when we had never
had more than one-year contracts before, it also seems like a bribe.
What I really don't know is whether a kickback like this is an illegal
kickback? She's not a public employee, but doesn't she have some
fiduciary duty to the HOA which she has breached?
Is that a basis for a criminal charge and/or a civil suit against her.
What about the "bribe", which I guess would be a lot harder to prove?
This would not be such a big deal if she weren't so bad in other ways
also. Too many to list here except for: Don't know the details yet
but she got the HOA to pay for, or she got an electrician who was here
for some other reason, to put a floodlight on her house, and later
wanted to put in video monitoring of her parking place (but decided it
was too expensive), because she says her car has had its tires slashed
twice because she is president of the HOA. I think there must be loads
of people who dislike her for loads of reasons unrelated to the HOA.
I understand fully why the contractors would be willing to do this,
and I'm not angry at them.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
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On Mar 11, 3:58=A0am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
She's not paying for these services. =A0It seems to me that makes them
kickbacks. =A0 Since she agreed to a 3-year contract when we had never
had more than one-year contracts before, it also seems like a bribe.
What I really don't know is whether a kickback like this is an illegal
kickback? =A0She's not a public employee, but doesn't she have some
fiduciary duty to the HOA which she has breached?
Is that a basis for a criminal charge and/or a civil suit against her.
What about the "bribe", which I guess would be a lot harder to prove
Its odd to me that your reaction to this is to ask if there was a
civil or criminal action here. I would have thought your question
would be more along the lines of asking how you could remove her from
office. If you think she has done something wrong, why would you want
her still in office? Review your bylaws and see what the procedures
are for replacing her. If you later wanted to go after her in civil
court you probably would find you really don't have much damages to
seek.,
-Robert
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In article <7dpct3pq5jjug95rh50rkf38lbru7os499@4ax.com>,
mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
I'm in Maryland, Baltimore County, and I've learned that the president
of our Homeowners Association has gotten the gardening company that we
employ to mow her lawn, and the snowplowing contractor that we employ
to shovel her sidewalk. In return it seems she signed 3-year
contracts with these companies, which apparently a trusting board
agreed to. AIUI, such practices are common, but....
She's not paying for these services. It seems to me that makes them
kickbacks. Since she agreed to a 3-year contract when we had never
had more than one-year contracts before, it also seems like a bribe.
If she is getting something that she would not otherwise get due
to her position, then that is a real problem. Do bring it up
at a HOA board meeting. Perhaps you will get this person voted
out, and perhaps without this extra work, the vendors will be
able to charge less.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
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mm wrote:
[suspects kickbacks in letting of landscaping contract for HOA]
Is that a basis for a criminal charge and/or a civil suit against her.
I don't see any benefit in trying to decide, if your facts are well
sorted, if this is a bribe or a kickback. IMO, neither is a criminal
situation but rather a tort with the damaged party the various members
of the HOA.
To prove damages, you'd need to demonstrate that there ARE damages which
your OP doesn't even allege. That is, you'd need to demonstrate that
your HOA is paying more for a particular service or is somehow reduced
by the contract with this gardener.
Let's say that the the landscaping for the HOA would cost $X for a Y
standard in your area. That's the benchmark. If the current contractor
is charging no more than $X for Y standard of care, then there may be a
tort but no damages - hardly worth pursuing. That is, he's meeting the
benchmark. Now if you can demonstrate that he'd charge less than $X for
Y standard of care if he didn't also do the president's lawn for free,
again, there are at least SOME damages.
If you are dissatisfied with your HOA president (and most seem to be)
then examine your HOA agreement to see removal procedures.
-paul
ianal
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MM,
I'm in Maryland, Baltimore County, and I've learned that the president
of our Homeowners Association has gotten the gardening company that we
employ to mow her lawn, and the snowplowing contractor that we employ
to shovel her sidewalk. In return it seems she signed 3-year
contracts with these companies, which apparently a trusting board
agreed to. AIUI, such practices are common, but....
She's not paying for these services. It seems to me that makes them
kickbacks. Since she agreed to a 3-year contract when we had never
had more than one-year contracts before, it also seems like a bribe.
Homeowner Associations are an illegal infringement against private
property rights and must be fought and destroyed on all fronts.
If the president is getting free services, it sure sounds like a
kickback from contractors.
You can file a civil suit I believe, or just go for the jugular and
have her charged criminally. I'd go for the jugular. Remember, all
Homeowner Associations are to be destroyed immediately.
Lighthope
Pearls of Wisdom - Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile
in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away
and you have their shoes.
--== TIGERS' QUEST - http://www.tigersquest.com
--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS - http://www.dwad.net
--== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net
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On Mar 11, 5:58 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
I'm in Maryland, Baltimore County, and I've learned that the president
of our Homeowners Association has gotten the gardening company that we
employ to mow her lawn, and the snowplowing contractor that we employ
to shovel her sidewalk. In return it seems she signed 3-year
contracts with these companies, which apparently a trusting board
agreed to. AIUI, such practices are common, but....
She's not paying for these services. It seems to me that makes them
kickbacks. Since she agreed to a 3-year contract when we had never
had more than one-year contracts before, it also seems like a bribe.
What I really don't know is whether a kickback like this is an illegal
kickback? She's not a public employee, but doesn't she have some
fiduciary duty to the HOA which she has breached?
Is that a basis for a criminal charge and/or a civil suit against her.
What about the "bribe", which I guess would be a lot harder to prove?
This would not be such a big deal if she weren't so bad in other ways
also. Too many to list here except for: Don't know the details yet
but she got the HOA to pay for, or she got an electrician who was here
for some other reason, to put a floodlight on her house, and later
wanted to put in video monitoring of her parking place (but decided it
was too expensive), because she says her car has had its tires slashed
twice because she is president of the HOA. I think there must be loads
of people who dislike her for loads of reasons unrelated to the HOA.
I understand fully why the contractors would be willing to do this,
and I'm not angry at them.
I wish I could have cut more of the post to save space, but there's a
lot of issues here.
First read your home owners docs. There are usually 3 ways a board
member can be removed. They can resign, the majority of the board can
vote them off, or the home owners can call for a meeting to vote the
board member off the board. Or you can wait until elections and mount
a campaign to get rid of them. I also suggest that you talk to a
lawyer who specializes in condo/hoa law. You may want to get a group
of neighbors together to fund the lawyer. Here's why. Your board
members will do anything to stay on the board. Trust me, I know from
my own experiences as to how far they will go.
As to the "perks", if you can prove it, that could be enough to force
her to resign. However proving it will be difficult.
A civil suit? That would be hard too. Again knowing is one thing,
proving is another.
Criminal law doesn't apply. Depending on the state, you could sue her
for being remiss in her fiduciary duties. But you'd have to show how
the 3 year deal harmed you and the Association members. Nobody likes a
lawsuit and its bad PR.
My suggestion is to wait until the next election. Or if she's done
something that is well over the line, and you can prove it....
reconsider your options.
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On Mar 2008, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
in Maryland, Baltimore County . . . I've learned that
the president of our Homeowners Association has
gotten the gardening company . . . we employ to mow
her lawn, and the snowplowing contractor . . . we employ
to shovel her sidewalk. In return it seems she signed
3-year contracts with these companies, which apparently
a trusting board agreed to . . . .
. . . with or without disclosure by her to the board of the services
being provide her?
* * * She's not paying for these services . . . .
With or without the approvable or at least informed/knowing
acquiescence of the board?
What I really don't know is whether a kickback
like this is an illegal kickback?
Until you've at the least answered the above interjected questions, a
reader of what you've said won't be able to evaluate whether the term
"kickback" (or "bribery") fairly applies or in any other respect what
you'r "like this" (seeming) qualification actually qualifies.
[D]oesn't she have some fiduciary duty to the
HOA . . .
. . . yes . . .
. . . which she has breached?
One can't tell dependably only from the facts as you so far state
them.
Is that a basis for a criminal charge and/or
a civil suit against her.
Some provisions of Maryland's penal laws that you may want to follow
up by reading some of the judicial decisions construing/applying them
might include:
7-113. Embezzlement - Fraudulent misappropriation by fiduciary.
A fiduciary may not . . . fraudulently and willfully
appropriate money or a thing of value that the fiduciary holds in a
fiduciary capacity contrary to the requirements of the fiduciary's
trust responsibility; or . . .secrete money or a thing of value that
the fiduciary holds in a fiduciary capacity with a fraudulent intent
to use the money or thing of value contrary to the requirements of the
fiduciary's trust responsibility
7-104 (e). General theft provisions.
A person may not obtain the services of another that are
available only for compensation . . .by deception
8-402. Fraudulent misrepresentation by corporate officer or agent.
With intent to defraud, an officer or agent of a corporation
may not sign, or in any manner assent to, a statement to or a
publication for. . . the shareholders that contains false
representations of the corporation's assets, liabilities, or affairs,
to . . . commit fraud in an[y] manner
8-601. Counterfeiting of private instruments and documents.
A person, with intent to defraud another, may not
counterfeit, cause to be counterfeited, or willingly aid or assist in
counterfeiting any: . . .entry in an account book or ledger
7-113. Embezzlement - Fraudulent misappropriation by fiduciary.
A fiduciary may not . . . fraudulently and willfully
appropriate money or a thing of value that the fiduciary holds in a
fiduciary capacity contrary to the requirements of the fiduciary's
trust responsibility; or . . .secrete money or a thing of value that
the fiduciary holds in a fiduciary capacity with a fraudulent intent
to use the money or thing of value contrary to the requirements of the
fiduciary's trust responsibility
7-104 (e). General theft provisions.
A person may not obtain the services of another that are
available only for compensation . . .by deception
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"Paul Cassel" <pcasselremove2@comremovecast.net> wrote
If you are dissatisfied with your HOA president (and most seem to be)
then examine your HOA agreement to see removal procedures.
In most places that I have lived board members get elected by default since
no one else
care to attend HOA meetings or run for office.
It is easy to complain but hard to volunteer,
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In article <evdft35fmm8g25engp5gh18hdkgpbtgidg@4ax.com>,
<nospam@isp.com> wrote:
On Mar 2008, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
. . . with or without disclosure by her to the board of the services
being provide her?
What about disclosure to the IRS?
Seth
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