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Can lawenforcement lie and electronically sign that the website material
is for their personal use etc, and sign that they are not affiliated with
any law enforcement agency and still bust you for material that is being
sold on the website? Most all adult sites have these disclaimers including
Playboy, Hustler, and it would seem that they have lawyers that write the
disclaimer. I have always wondered this and any input would be greatly
appreciated, thank you.
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On Mar 30, 4:57 am, m...@here.com wrote:
Can lawenforcement lie and electronically sign that the website material
is for their personal use etc, and sign that they are not affiliated with
any law enforcement agency and still bust you for material that is being
sold on the website?
What would the remedy be though. So a law enforcement officer does
"sign" the agreement. So what? Maybe in your criminal case he'll go up
on the stand and so, "opps, my bad" but I can't see how that would
affect the case in any way.
-Robert
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On Mar 30, 7:57 am, m...@here.com wrote:
Can lawenforcement lie and electronically sign that the website material
is for their personal use etc, and sign that they are not affiliated with
any law enforcement agency and still bust you for material that is being
sold on the website? Most all adult sites have these disclaimers including
Playboy, Hustler, and it would seem that they have lawyers that write the
disclaimer. I have always wondered this and any input would be greatly
appreciated, thank you.
--
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Yes. What you describe is no different from a undercover drug
investigation where an officer purchases drugs from a dealer. If the
material on the website is illegal (child pornography for instance),
then disclaimers have no effect. There are many law enforcement
organizations looking at these kinds of sites. Visitors to these sites
should be aware that they may be observed. Offenders are caught and
prosecuted.
Mike Boersma
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Terms of use of this message: It may not be stored or read in North
Dakota. (see http://www.circleid.com/posts/811611_david_ritz_court_spam/
for the reason.)
In article <e00vu31q7hbf1al09a9gdq263rsjpebmtc@4ax.com>, <me@here.com> wrote:
Can lawenforcement lie
Yes.
and electronically sign that the website material
is for their personal use etc, and sign that they are not affiliated with
any law enforcement agency and still bust you for material that is being
sold on the website?
Yes.
For that matter, I can truthfully say that I don't work for law
enforcement and am not affiliated with any law enforcement agency; yet
there's stuff I would (and do) forward to them when I see it.
Most all adult sites have these disclaimers including
Playboy, Hustler, and it would seem that they have lawyers that write the
disclaimer.
Why would they bother? Their stuff is legal (and easily-enough
findable).
I could see some site selling illegal stuff doing that, hoping that it
provides some protection. (If the police officer takes the stand to
testify, he could be asked about what he signed to prove he's a liar
and discredit his testimony.)
Seth
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On Apr 6, 9:06 am, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
I could see some site selling illegal stuff doing that, hoping that it
provides some protection. (If the police officer takes the stand to
testify, he could be asked about what he signed to prove he's a liar
and discredit his testimony.)
The law specifically allows police officers to lie to suspects about
who they are and what they are doing, in the course of conducting an
undercover investigation -- whether it's drugs, terrorists, online
illegal porn or whatever. That's the whole idea of "undercover" - the
perps he's dealing with don't know he's a cop, and indeed with certain
kinds of crimes the cop's life could be in danger if the gang he's
mixing with finds out. In any event, the criminal activities the cop
is trying to uncover would not be revealed to him unless he had
adequately convinced the criminals he was dealing with that he was not
a cop and was "one of them" so he could infiltrate their activities.
Assuming the defense attorney's strategy included cross-examining the
cop regarding his e-signature on the website disclaimer form, he would
first have to get over the hurdle of whether the judge would even let
him ask that question (per a motion in limine by the prosecution), I'm
sure the cop would forthrightly testify that it was a required part of
his undercover investigation and that he was following departmental
guidelines as well as applicable law that allowed him to assume a
false identity in order to enter the illegal website. So even if the
questions get asked, any normal jury is likely to find it has nothing
to do with his personal honesty or credibility in other contexts or
his believability as a witness to the crimes he saw being committed
once he was "let in the door".
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
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On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:06:09 -0400, sethb@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
Terms of use of this message: It may not be stored or read in North
Dakota. (see http://www.circleid.com/posts/811611_david_ritz_court_spam/
for the reason.)
In article <e00vu31q7hbf1al09a9gdq263rsjpebmtc@4ax.com>, <me@here.com> wrote:
Yes.
Yes.
For that matter, I can truthfully say that I don't work for law
enforcement and am not affiliated with any law enforcement agency; yet
there's stuff I would (and do) forward to them when I see it.
Why would they bother? Their stuff is legal (and easily-enough
findable).
Maybe they have it to make the sites seem exciting and dangerous.
Malcomn X in his teens or 20's used to sell "stolen watches". They
were actually cheap watches that he bought at the cheap watch
wholesale outlet, and he had a peddlar's license, but he would skulk
and take prospective customers into the alley or out of sight of the
street, so they would think they were buying stolen goods, and want it
because they thought they were getting a bargain. So if they
overpaid, and they sure did, they were crooked too and deserved to be
"cheated".
I could see some site selling illegal stuff doing that, hoping that it
provides some protection. (If the police officer takes the stand to
testify, he could be asked about what he signed to prove he's a liar
and discredit his testimony.)
Seth
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
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mm wrote:
Malcomn X in his teens or 20's used to sell "stolen watches". They
were actually cheap watches that he bought at the cheap watch
wholesale outlet, and he had a peddlar's license, but he would skulk
and take prospective customers into the alley or out of sight of the
street, so they would think they were buying stolen goods, and want it
because they thought they were getting a bargain. So if they
overpaid, and they sure did, they were crooked too and deserved to be
"cheated".
It would seem that such would be illegal even if the watches were NOT
stolen, just as selling oregano and saying it was pot or selling
powdered sugar as coke has been ruled as illegal.
--
http://www.myspace.com/prabbit237
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mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Malcomn X in his teens or 20's used to sell "stolen watches". They
were actually cheap watches that he bought at the cheap watch
wholesale outlet, and he had a peddlar's license, but he would
skulk and take prospective customers into the alley or out of
sight of the street, so they would think they were buying stolen
goods, and want it because they thought they were getting a
bargain. So if they overpaid, and they sure did, they were
crooked too and deserved to be "cheated".
Reminds me of a Cary Grant movie where he's a qualified physician but
practicing in a backward, impoverished part of the country. He tells
them he's a witch doctor instead, and does well - until they discover
he's really an MD, at which point they ostracize him.
Stu
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:16:58 -0400, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com>
wrote:
mm wrote:
It would seem that such would be illegal even if the watches were NOT
stolen, just as selling oregano and saying it was pot or selling
powdered sugar as coke has been ruled as illegal.
That ruling probably post-dated the time period in my story.
But more important: Maybe my putting stolen watches in quotes was
misleading. I meant it to indicate that the buyers thought they were
stolen watches, not that he said they were. I don't believe he said
that at all. He just skulked around, looked secretive, maybe he
whispered, and some of the buyers jumped to conclusions.
BTW, aiui, Malcomn X didn't like me and so I don't like him, but the
story doesn't relate to that and I still think the story is worth
telling.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
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In article <v2iuv3pn37v8888jve5up2205dg5at1a0q@4ax.com>,
Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:
mm wrote:
It would seem that such would be illegal even if the watches were NOT
stolen, just as selling oregano and saying it was pot or selling
powdered sugar as coke has been ruled as illegal.
What if his sales pitch was "Want to buy a good watch cheap?" He
isn't saying it's stolen (and calling a watch "good" certainly isn't
illegal). He might even have denied (wink, wink) that it was stolen.
Seth
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