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Is it legal to spray my neighbors annoying dog with a dog repellant
spray?
I've been spraying it over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home, in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
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In article <tkp4v35tmghofft45r7a2boc7mfutqb1pb@4ax.com>,
Eric66 <eric.6605@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it legal to spray my neighbors annoying dog with a dog repellant
spray?
sometimes yes, sometimes no. "it depends." <wry grin>
I've been spraying it over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home, in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
"Insufficient data", as usual.
_IF_ the wall in question is the property line between your property and
the neighbor's property, then the dog is on the neighbor's property and
is jumping on the side of the fence the neighbor owns. The fact that said
action/noise/whatever "annoys you" is simply "too bad". You have, _for_
_practical_purposes_, no recourse. Essentially your only avenue is a complaint
to the local government entitity (whomever that may be), with a complaint
on the basis of "disturbing the peace and quiet", and/or (possibly) "main-
taining a public nuisance". The odds of any success with that approach are
*NOT* good.
If, on the other hand, the fence is entirely on your property, and the dog
is 'trespassing' onto your land _before_ reaching the fence, the situation
is materially different.
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On Apr 1, 11:45 am, Eric66 <eric.6...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it legal to spray my neighbors annoying dog with a dog repellant
spray?
I've been spraying it over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home, in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
Let me get this straight. You're reaching your hands over the wall
between yours and your neighbor's properties, onto the neighbor's
side, and spraying a noxious chemical onto the pavement on your
neighbor's side? And you want to know if for some reason this isn't
a trespass and an infringement of your neighbor's right to control his
own dog on his own property, hoiw?
I would suggest you cease and desist from interfering with your
neighbor and his dog before your neighbor sues you or has you arrested
(or takes the law into his own hands, or just makes life miserable for
you). Keep your hands on you own side of the wall.
Now, if the dog were to jump on you while on public property or in
your own yard, go ahead and spray the repellent to keep him away. But
that's a different kettle of fish.
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
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Eric,
Is it legal to spray my neighbors annoying dog with a dog repellant
spray?
What? You want to spray something that might be harmful on your
neighbor's dog? You indicate that this dog is not repelled by this spray so
spraying the dog seems silly.
I've been spraying it over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home,
You really shouldn't be spraying stuff on other people's property. Is it
your wall? is it your pavement?
in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
Have you raised this issue with your neighbor, and then "animal control".
Good luck,
Dave M.
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On Apr 1, 9:45=A0am, Eric66 <eric.6...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it legal to spray my neighbors annoying dog with a dog repellant
spray?
I've been spraying it over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home, in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
Legal in what since? I doubt there is a criminal code that affects
this. If the stuff was toxic and harmed the dog you would certainly be
accountable in civil court if the neighbor went after you. However,
the neighbor would have to have damages. If the dog isn't hurt by the
stuff it would be unlikely that your neighbor would have damages as a
result.
-Robert
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On Apr 4, 7:39 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrot
the neighbor would have to have damages. If the dog isn't hurt by the
stuff it would be unlikely that your neighbor would have damages as a
result.
Contra Mr. Gary's opinion, if OP were sued for trespass, the neighbor
would not have to prove actual damages.
Intentional torts such as trespass to property can be brought for
nominal damages (e.g., one dollar) and/or punitive damages at common
law (this right may be modified by statute in various states, I don't
know for sure what applies in CA where Mr. Gary lives). The right to
be secure in one's own abode is a valuable property right and personal
liberty right, and that right is what is infringed by the
trespasser. If his offense is one a jury would consider egregious
(as it might be, based only on the bare facts OP posted) a jury could
legally award punitive damages against him in an amount the jury would
consider sufficient to "sting" OP without bankrupting him. That
could be a pretty big risk for OP to take.
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
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Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:41:35 -0400 from Mike Jacobs
<mjacobslaw@gmail.com>:
On Apr 4, 7:39 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrot
Contra Mr. Gary's opinion, if OP were sued for trespass, the neighbor
would not have to prove actual damages.
Intentional torts such as trespass to property can be brought for
nominal damages (e.g., one dollar) and/or punitive damages
Also, there are a number of criminal charges that could be brought:
malicious mischief and vandalism come to mind.
--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
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On Apr 4, 4:39 am, bon...@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
If, on the other hand, the fence is entirely on your property, and the dog
is 'trespassing' onto your land _before_ reaching the fence, the situation
is materially different.
I believe the wall to be built on the property line. It was built by
the home builder. A survey would confirm this, but common sense and
the way the homes are built suggests it's on the line.
Eric
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On Apr 4, 4:39 am, Mike Jacobs <mjacobs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me get this straight. You're reaching your hands over the wall
between yours and your neighbor's properties, onto the neighbor's
side, and spraying a noxious chemical onto the pavement on your
neighbor's side? And you want to know if for some reason this isn't
a trespass and an infringement of your neighbor's right to control his
own dog on his own property, hoiw?
Yes. And is it in fact a trespass, or actionable infringement?
I would suggest you cease and desist from interfering with your
neighbor and his dog before your neighbor sues you or has you arrested
(or takes the law into his own hands, or just makes life miserable for
you). Keep your hands on you own side of the wall.
On what ground would the neighbor sue me? I think it would be highly
unlikely that local law enforcement would arrest me - in fact I find
it unlikely that they'd even show up at my home in answer to a call
such as this. We have property theft (from parked cars) that barely
command a response.
Now, if the dog were to jump on you while on public property or in
your own yard, go ahead and spray the repellent to keep him away. But
that's a different kettle of fish.
If the dog were to actually jump on me, or manage tooth to skin
contact of any kind, I would imagine that I could eventually own my
neighbors home.
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
I'm happy that you posted this disclaimer. My original question was
posted in the same vein. In fact, I specifically posted it in the
manner that I though would bring about the most response to patently
absurd behavior.
You see, *I* am the dog owning neighbor, and my next door neighbor is
the dog sprayer. The dog repellent spray appears to be a product
called "Get Away", which is marketed as being safe and non-toxic. A
little research shows that it is made of natural oils and a natural
active ingredient which is an irritant: OC. A little more research
seems to show that this is effectively pepper spray for dogs.
I have three main concerns:
(1) The safety of my dog. After the most recent spraying, my dog
apparently was sprayed in the mouth or nostrils with this stuff, and
she had deep hacking coughs for a week. The active ingredient is
known to cause chronic bronchitis symptoms in humans, although it is
not marketed as being dangerous to animals. I have considered calling
the ASPCA regarding the neighbors behavior.
(2) Damage to my property. This has happened about a half dozen
times. The most recent time was when I posted. Before that, 6 months
ago, around Halloween 2007. The oils in the spray soak into the
concrete and DO NOT fade until 8+ months later. The Halloween 2007
spots are clearly visible. The spray on the kids playground jungle
gym in the background does not rub/wipe off, and collects dirt. The
spray on the dogs fur is brought into the house and the dog deposits
it on the furniture.
(3) Keeping the peace. We have been friendly with this neighbor in
the past, and that has been reciprocated. They have only asked us to
try to control the dogs jumping and barking once, and the barking has
been quelled, and the jumping curtailed by not letting our dog use our
yard for anything other than elimination. Apparently this is not
sufficient, as the few times our dog has been inside our yard for more
than 30 minutes without my immediate presence, the spraying has
commenced. (But, never in my presence). The neighbor has said
nothing. We have said nothing (but, much grumbling ensued within our
home, and I've spent hours scrubbing concrete the first couple times,
until I realized it was a fruitless effort).
With this new information in mind - is my neighbor's behavior
actionable?
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On Apr 5, 4:41=A0am, Mike Jacobs <mjacobs...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 4, 7:39 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrot
Contra Mr. Gary's opinion, if OP were sued for trespass, the neighbor
would not have to prove actual damages.
Intentional torts such as trespass to property can be brought for
nominal damages (e.g., one dollar) and/or punitive damages at common
law (this right may be modified by statute in various states, I don't
know for sure what applies in CA where Mr. Gary lives). =A0The right to
be secure in one's own abode is a valuable property right and personal
liberty right, and that right is what is infringed by the
trespasser. =A0 If his offense is one a jury would consider egregious
(as it might be, based only on the bare facts OP posted) a jury could
legally award punitive damages against him in an amount the jury would
consider sufficient to "sting" OP without bankrupting him. =A0 That
could be a pretty big risk for OP to take.
It wasn't obvious on my first read of the post that the OP was going
to enter the neigbor's property. I thought she just wanted to spray
some bitter apple or something on her own fence.
-rorbet
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On Apr 1, 12:45 pm, Eric66 <eric.6...@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been spraying [dog repellent] over the wall, coating the pavement closest to
my home, in an effort to keep the dog from jumping up on the wall,
which is highly annoying.
Having your dog sprayed by an angry neighbor would also be annoying.
People tend to get annoyed when their pets are attacked. And it WILL
be perceived as an attack.
It may or may not be legal to spray the dog... it depends on whether
the spray injures him or her, on what local law says about animal
rights, whose side of the property line the wall is on, etc., etc.
But if you DO spray the dog, your neighbors are definitely going to
try to figure out some angle which would make it illegal. One thing I
think I can state with confidence is that abusing other people's pets
(or even your own) is illegal EVERYWHERE. I can also state with
confidence that where pets are involved, people can get angry even
when no laws have been broken. An extreme example is that when I was
a kid my neighbor shot my dog, and unfortunately under the
circumstances it wasn't illegal... and 40 years have gone by... and I
am STILL angry at the neighbor. So don't expect the neighbors to just
say "well, he didn't break the law when he sprayed Fido, so it's all
good."
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Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:08:46 -0400 from Eric66 <eric.6605@gmail.com>:
On Apr 4, 4:39 am, Mike Jacobs <mjacobs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. And is it in fact a trespass, or actionable infringement?
Of course. You're going onto someone else's property, for no lawful
purpose and where no implicit public welcome exists.
I would suggest you cease and desist from interfering with your
neighbor and his dog before your neighbor sues you or has you arrested
(or takes the law into his own hands, or just makes life miserable for
you). Keep your hands on you own side of the wall.
On what ground would the neighbor sue me?
Trespass. Malicious mischief. Emotional distress (if you do any
damage to the family pet or cause it pain). Doubtless a Real Lawyer
would find others.
If the dog were to actually jump on me, or manage tooth to skin
contact of any kind, I would imagine that I could eventually own my
neighbors home.
Well, it's a free country (to an extent), and you can imagine what
you like. But when a dog is properly confined, and you provoke it by
reaching a hand into its yard, I doubt any court in the land would
award you a dime.
[And then you tell us that you were deliberately misleading us, and
you are the injured party not the one doing the spraying.]
With this new information in mind - is my neighbor's behavior
actionable?
I think probably it is, and I also think that for anyone to sue
anyone is a big mistake.
I strongly advise you to seek mediation. Maybe your municipality has
some sort of community mediation service; maybe the two of you go to
the same church (or could agree to visit a nondenominational one for
this purpose); maybe you could each pay half for a session with a
professional social worker. (IMHO, it would be a bargain if you paid
the whole cost of the session.) Or your lawyer might be able to
suggest a professional mediator -- again, even if you have to pay the
full cost you're getting off cheap.
Neighbor disputes never have a winner, only two losers. You want to
get (back) to the point of friendly relations with this neighbor, and
that means getting the real grievances aired and finding a way to
live comfortably next to each other.
There are enough ill feelings now that you should not talk to each
other, IMHO, without a neutral party. Even to make the offer of
mediation, I suggest a letter. And for heaven's sake use neutral
language: "the issues between us" and "so that we can be good
neighbors again", not "so that you'll stop bothering me".
--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
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On Apr 10, 8:08 am, Eric66 <eric.6...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm happy that you posted this disclaimer. My original question was
posted in the same vein. In fact, I specifically posted it in the
manner that I though would bring about the most response to patently
absurd behavior.
You see, *I* am the dog owning neighbor, and my next door neighbor is
the dog sprayer.
Pretending to be your own opposing party is not what I would call "the
same vein" as my disclaimer -- not just because it's not nice to
deceive people who are trying to be helpful to you, which is weird
enough, but mainly because the answers you get will be skewed by the
perspective you present them from and thus essentially useless to what
you really want to know.
If you wanted to know if you could sue the guy, why not just ask
that? Better yet, why not just call a local plaintiff's lawyer who
works on a contingency fee and see if he is interested in meeting and
taking your case? You're going to have to do that anyway, if you want
to try suing with any chance of success.
In case you're still reading, the main reason the answers you get will
differ depending on which side you are taking is due to the burden of
proof and the presumptions that will apply in the lack of persuasive
evidence to the contrary. It is also because each party (and
his attorney, if that party is being forthright with counsel to get
good advice) knows facts that are unknown to the opposing party, and
vice versa. Some of those facts may have to be disclosed in
discovery, but certain othres, such as what you were "really"
thinking, your motivation, your biases, etc. are the kind of thing no
one else can really know for sure unless you tell them, and your
attorney (if you really _are_ on the side you represent to be) is
going to tell you to keep your mouth shut about those things and just
"stick to the facts." The other side may be able to argue for
certain reasonable inferences from those facts, but neither they nor
the jury will ever really, truly "know" what is in your heart. OTOH,
if you tell those things to your own attorney, he can (and IMO should)
advise you to cut the crap if what you are doing is illegal, unsafe,
or both-- even if no one would ever be able to convict you or get a
civil judgment against you because they wouldn't be able to prove it.
So, when you write to us and take the position of the bad guy and tell
us all the bad stuff you've been doing, of couse we are going to tell
you that what you are doing is bad and you should cut it out.
And that is totally useless to you if you are the victim and want to
know if you can successfully sue your neighbor for what he is doing.
I'm not even going to attempt to answer _that_ question, except to
reiterate that you ought to consult a local plaintiff's contingent fee
lawyer (or more than one, if the first turns you down) and see if he
will take the ball and run with it.
Miffed as I am that you had us all wasting our time by misrepresenting
yourself to us, I do wish you good luck in that endeavor. If you can
prove that what your neighbor is doing is as bad as you made it sound,
you may be able to take his bank account down a notch. Before you go
there, however, have you even tried just talking to him and telling
him to cut it out, because what he is doing is damaging your
property? I'd try that first.
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
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Mike Jacobs wrote:
On Apr 1, 11:45 am, Eric66 <eric.6...@gmail.com> wrote:
I would suggest you cease and desist from interfering with your
neighbor and his dog before your neighbor sues you or has you arrested
(or takes the law into his own hands, or just makes life miserable for
you).
But "taking the law into his own hands" works both ways, doesn't it?
Isn't that what the sprayer is doing?
I have a related question. Where I live there are paved trails that are
popular for walking, running, and biking. Dogs on leashes are often
walked on the trail as well.
At a few specific private properties that are adjacent to the trail and
separated by a chain link fence, very annoying dogs will often lurk
(hidden by foliage) and then suddenly lunge at the fence, startling
passersby and generally making that section of the trail unpeaceful and
unpleasant to use. I don't walk a dog, but can see where dog walkers
might also suddenly have issues with their own dog's response to this
unwarranted behavior.
While I have not actually done so, I too on more than one occasion have
thought of spraying something from the public side of the fence in the
direction of the dogs to discourage this behavior, something the owners
clearly have no intention of doing. Would there be anything wrong with
this? What about standing in front of the dogs, with ear plugs, long
enough so that the barking started to annoy other neighbors?
What if the property owner installed a motion detector connected to a
loud alarm that was triggered every time someone walked by on the trail?
Would this be illegal? How would it be different from the
uncontrolled dog?
-Mark Bole
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:08:46 -0400, Eric66 <eric.6605@gmail.com>
wrote:
(3) Keeping the peace. We have been friendly with this neighbor in
the past, and that has been reciprocated. They have only asked us to
try to control the dogs jumping and barking once, and the barking has
been quelled, and the jumping curtailed by not letting our dog use our
yard for anything other than elimination. Apparently this is not
sufficient,
It might have been had you discussed it with him. Assuming it is
accurate that your dog was only out for more than 30 minutes a "few"
times, were I your neighbor, I would certainly have a hard time
keeping track, or if I thought it was less, realize that it was
because of your decision. Instead I would think that I had been away
all the other times, that the dogs schedule or mine had changed enough
that I didn't see him doing this stuff as often, but that he was.
Even more likely, it would be like this. Say you have a kid and every
day you call him dummy a couple times. Say after 6 months, after you
sense it annoys him, you decide that's too much and you call him dummy
only once every 3 days. Do you think that one time every 3 days will
annoy him any less than each one did when it was 3 times a day.
You have the basis for an armistice or even a peace with your new
actions, but by not telling him anything had changed, he's still
reacting as if things hadn't. I'm not going to guess at why you
didn't disucss it with him. But if you want to tell us, I'd be
interested.
I have a neighbor who I got along with fine for the first 2 months.
In the middle of one conversation, he said something about having to
leave and he left and things were not the same after that. He was
much less friendly. I didn't notice for a while and then I took some
time to try to figure out why (He was not my top priority, and I also
knew it might have nothing to do with me, so I waited.) He ddidn't
seem to want to talk, but after I had a couple ideas (and here you
have a couple current things to talk about already.) I invited him out
for a drink. I'm not against drinking, but I go to a bar maybe once
every 5 years, and this seemed like a good time. He said no, but he
treated me a lot better after that. At least it sure seemed that way.
I didn't have a measurilng stick like you do.
Whatever I did to annoy him never happened again, because we don't
have the same kind of discussions now. Just polite hello's and
good-bye's. And that's fine. (Although I'm exaggerating a little
here. He is the same neighbor who I thought was maintaining my little
chunk of property so as to get adverse possession of it. Of course he
probably never was, I learned here.But he's still friendlier than that
first year.)
So invite your guy out for a drink, and if he's reluctant, maybe you
can discuss it on the spot and tell him the change you made.
Lawsuits lead to more hard feelings and you have to live next to this
guy, 1, 10, 50 more years. After the conversation, invite him to a
barbecue.
In other circumstances, I woudl have suggested: Consider maybe
gettting a dog shock collar and giving him one of the remotes. The
neighbor's not a sadist, is he, or vicious? I don't think he would
shock the dog unless he was jumping up the wall, but if he did, you
could take the remote back, change the frequency on the collar, or
remove the collar entirely.
There are several pets newsgroups where you can get more, better
ideas.
as the few times our dog has been inside our yard for more
than 30 minutes without my immediate presence, the spraying has
commenced. (But, never in my presence). The neighbor has said
nothing. We have said nothing (but, much grumbling ensued within our
Nothing + nothing = nothing.
home, and I've spent hours scrubbing concrete the first couple times,
until I realized it was a fruitless effort).
With this new information in mind - is my neighbor's behavior
actionable?
BTW, it's almost always true that the fact that the actions of one
side can be criticized doesn't mean that the actions of the other
can't be also. Often two people contribute to a fight. So don't feel
bad that people argued against the sprayer's behaviour when he was the
topic and against yours when you are.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
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