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We're (husband wife team) semi-retired and teach, pro bono, students and
interns in the business of graphic arts and design as well as the finer
parts
of the art.
One of our students agreed to provide work product for an out of state
client over the internet (craigslist.org post). The client paid a deposit
($50) and there ensued a series of back and forth discussion with samples
(called comps) provided by the student.
After the final design was approved the student emailed the completed files
to the client with a bill for the balance ($100). The client used the work
product but has refused to pay the balance and has responded to polite
request with various excuses. Client is now ignoring all communications.
The student now sees the wisdom of our instruction to get the balance BEFORE
releasing the final files so lesson two learned. (lesson one was to get a
deposit before the work started)
The amount is small but not so small from the student's POV.
I'm willing to front the cost of small claims court as part of an education
exercise for all our students and interns.
Given the small claims court is in Texas and the client is based in
California what are the trips and precautions we need to follow in going
after the skip?
I'm aware that a judgment does not automatically equate to collection. If
the client does not pay what can the student do to register the judgment
officially on the clients credit record, etc.?
From my thinking even a failure to prevail or collect is still a valuable
lesson.
Aside from whatever heads up this group might provide is there something
else we should be doing that would provide our students with a better
educational experience?
TIA
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NotMe,
You teach the business of "Graphic Arts". One of your tudents did some
work for a client in another State. This is hos client, not yours. The work
was submitted to the client after oral (?) discussion and the receipt of a
deposit. You do not mention a written contract..The final product was
submitted but no payment seems likely. The student wishes to sue in small
claims court. you ask for advice.
The most obvious advice to give is that you must teach your students
about contracts (oral and written). I think you are correct that going to
small claims court will result in a small claims judgement by default and
that there will not be a collection of that judgement. I would not advise
you to give this student the filing fees since that would be throwing good
money after bad. The student should walk away from this, it's not worth
pursuing. I hope your student learns to not deliver the final product until
the money is in hand.
Good luck,
Dave M.
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"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
One of our students agreed to provide work product for an out of
state client over the internet (craigslist.org post). The client
paid a deposit ($50) and there ensued a series of back and forth
discussion with samples (called comps) provided by the student.
After the final design was approved the student emailed the
completed files to the client with a bill for the balance ($100).
The client used the work product but has refused to pay the
balance and has responded to polite request with various excuses.
Given the small claims court is in Texas and the client is based
in California what are the trips and precautions we need to follow
in going after the skip?
I'm not familiar with Texas small claims court, but I do practice in
California. It seems to me that for the amount of money at stake,
just going to Texas for the small claims trial would cost more than
they would ever be able to get back.
They may be justified in suing in California Superior Court. But
again, for the amount of money involved they'd still have to go to
Texas to collect, so the ultimate cost would be more than they would
ever be able to collect.
I'm aware that a judgment does not automatically equate to
collection. If the client does not pay what can the student do to
register the judgment officially on the clients credit record,
etc.?
If they sue in Texas, then it will just be a matter of tracking down
the defendant's assets, and then having them executed on. If they
sue in California, they will have to go to Texas to sue on the
California judgment.
Aside from whatever heads up this group might provide is there
something else we should be doing that would provide our students
with a better educational experience?
The only thing I can think of would be to have them call Texas
collection agencies to see if any would be willing to buy the debt
from them. It is likely to be too small for anyone to be interested,
but in theory that would be the most effecient approach.
Stu
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On Apr 15, 7:58 am, "NotMe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
After the final design was approved the student emailed the completed files
to the client with a bill for the balance ($100). The client used the work
product but has refused to pay the balance and has responded to polite
request with various excuses. Client is now ignoring all communications.
The amount is small but not so small from the student's POV.
I'm willing to front the cost of small claims court as part of an education
exercise for all our students and interns.
By "front" do you mean "lend" or "donate"? Big difference from the
student's POV. Regardless of how much $100 means to him, his poverty
is insignificant because the real downside is the cost of chasing the
money -- which will approach or exceed that amount.
Given the small claims court is in Texas and the client is based in
California what are the trips and precautions we need to follow in going
after the skip?
The only caveat, procedurally speaking, is that the Texas judge may
refuse to grant a judgment due to lack of jurisdiction over the
defendant. The defendant likely won't bother to defend, but the judge
may give you trouble nonetheless. Service of process may also be an
issue, so ask the court clerk what your service options are.
I'm aware that a judgment does not automatically equate to collection. If
the client does not pay what can the student do to register the judgment
officially on the clients credit record, etc.?
Call TRW and ask. That's not my department.
Aside from whatever heads up this group might provide is there something
else we should be doing that would provide our students with a better
educational experience?
How about copyright law and work for hire?
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NotMe wrote:
[as a class lesson, wants to sue a person in CA while he's in TX. Amount
in question is $100]
Aside from whatever heads up this group might provide is there something
else we should be doing that would provide our students with a better
educational experience?
Instead of wasting the court's time on this one, you can teach your
class a good lesson by taking them to court to witness a trial. For the
time it'd take to file, you can see several trials and not have to pay a
filing fee.
Also you may be able to get a judge to hold a small seminar for your
students about how to protect themselves in situations like this and the
judge may also be willing to discuss the problems in collecting money
interstate.
-paul
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In article <gumb049pj74ko9fj1d86t5kd1b77pvaf20@4ax.com>,
"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
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In article <fumb04lcb72v9ib4vng23mfiegfhmjtjri@4ax.com>,
David L. Martel <marte005@earthlink.net> wrote:
You teach the business of "Graphic Arts". One of your tudents did some
work for a client in another State. This is hos client, not yours. The work
was submitted to the client after oral (?) discussion and the receipt of a
deposit. You do not mention a written contract..
It was negotiated over the Internet, so there's at least email (or the
like).
Seth
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In article <d05904pm8fhrihit2c3as3q121ttlvg6or@4ax.com>,
NotMe <me@privacy.net> wrote:
After the final design was approved the student emailed the completed files
to the client with a bill for the balance ($100). The client used the work
product but has refused to pay the balance and has responded to polite
request with various excuses. Client is now ignoring all communications.
Another approach would be for the student to register his copyright on
the work, and then notify the client. Statutory damages for copyright
violation are high enough to make suing worthwhile.
Seth
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sethb@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
NotMe <me@privacy.net> wrote:
Another approach would be for the student to register his
copyright on the work, and then notify the client. Statutory
damages for copyright violation are high enough to make suing
worthwhile.
That's actually a great idea! Under the DCMA any webhost is required
to take down a webpage when requested if it has copyrighted material
and the copyright owner objects. I don't know that it will actually
work - these kinds of contractual promises (I work, you pay) are
generally independent, so failure to pay won't change copyright
ownership. But unless the student expressly made his work "for hire"
he continues to own the copyright subject to a license by the buyer.
Stu
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"Seth" <sethb@panix.com>
|| >After the final design was approved the student emailed the completed
files
| >to the client with a bill for the balance ($100). The client used the
work
| >product but has refused to pay the balance and has responded to polite
| >request with various excuses. Client is now ignoring all communications.
|| Another approach would be for the student to register his copyright on
| the work, and then notify the client. Statutory damages for copyright
| violation are high enough to make suing worthwhile.
|Excellent point!! and likely a much better educational experience. (for the
students and myself, personally) FWIW I encourage all our students to
register copyright as part of the SOP (usually as a group of work not as
individual registrations due to cost.) The student has not yet received the
formal paperwork from government but expect that anytime.
The plan, originally, was to send a standard demand notice then proceed to
small claims if the client did not pay. Curious what is the advisability of
sending a demand letter referencing copyright law. If so where might I find
example boiler plate.
Since the client has documentation (corresponcance and invoices) of the
amounts what are the prospects of going for the big bucks and then
prevailing in court? Second question can we file for damages under
copyright within the small claim court limits or is that not a possibility
due to the statuary damages?
FWIW -- The few copyright problems we had were settled with a demand
letter from our former attorney. (She's no longer in practice and now in a
nursing home so no help even for phone calls.)
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On Apr 18, 8:17 am, "NotMe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
The plan, originally, was to send a standard demand notice then proceed to
small claims if the client did not pay. Curious what is the advisability of
sending a demand letter referencing copyright law. If so where might I find
example boiler plate.
With all due respect to your teaching role, you can't help your
students do this by sending demand letters (or telling them what to
put in them). IMHO that would be the unauthorized practice of law,
and you could get yourself in big trouble.
Either this case is, or isn't, worth enough to get a lawyer involved.
If not, and it's only $100 they lost, chalk it up to experience. But
if the sue-for-copyright-violation idea has merit, a lawyer will be
glad to take the ball and run with it, and to do it right (or else to
have himself be someone your student can sue for malpractice, if he
screws up -- you don't want the student doing that to YOU.)
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
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On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:46:14 -0400, Mike Jacobs <mjacobslaw@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Apr 18, 8:17 am, "NotMe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
With all due respect to your teaching role, you can't help your
students do this by sending demand letters (or telling them what to
put in them). IMHO that would be the unauthorized practice of law,
and you could get yourself in big trouble.
A safer option might be to find something like a Nolo book which
proposes a similar note. Especially considering a teaching role,
which might seem to lend undue authority to one's words, it should
be made very clear that there is no legal advice being dispensed.
There should be no unauthorized practice, however, in pointing out
that there are books on a subject, or that some people have succeeded
using certain methods. This should not stray, however, into actually
recommending or advising such methods, or purporting to inform others
of the legal ramifications of doing so.
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