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On February 7th, 2008, we had our car stolen from our driveway. The
first thing the 911 operator asked was if we were in default. We
said, "no." However, just to make sure there wasn't some mistake, we
called U.S. Bancorp in front of the sheriff and sought responses from
TWO different reps of U.S. Bancorp and both of them told us that there
was NOTHING to indicate our car was repo'ed because we were not in
default....we were current with them.
So we filled out the necessary paperwork from our insurance company to
settle the claim. After calling the insurance company after about a
month to find out when the checks would be going out, I noticed a
significant difference in the pay-off from the Feb. 18 quote and the
pay-off they gave the insurance company. So I called U.S. Bancorp to
find out why the big difference. I was put on hold after asking that
question. I was soon transferred to the "repo" department!
I was told that since I filed a business bankruptcy in 2005 (sole
proprietorship so I had to list certain personal items for exemption),
and the dept was discharged (It was not. It was reaffirmed and I have
the proof....), they could take my car at any time for any reason and
not even discuss the matter with me and that I should feel lucky that
this much info has been disclosed to me!
I was in shock. I asked what prompted this action. They said a
"Cease and Desist" notice from me. It was NOT a "Cease and Desist"
notice. It was a polite letter mailed at Christmas asking them to not
call my work number. Yes, with the holidays at Christmas we were late
with a payment and they were calling CONSTANTLY on the work number,
even after I gave them the USPS Delivery Confirmation number. So I
wrote a letter asking them to use other forms of communicating with me
which I detailed in the letter. (Toll free FAX, e-mail, USPS, etc.)
However, it doesn't end there. Since this incident, the account has
remained open. (We have recordings from there automated system.( We've
receive dunning notices. Friday we receive a letter from U.S. Bancorp
demanding their total loss insurance check!
And the problem is, no lawyer will take this until we know what we're
dealing with: a stolen vehcile or an illegal seizure of property!
Nobody, including the sheriff, the insurance company or myself can get
ANYTHING in writing which states this car is in U.S. Bancorp's
possession. In fact, we just received our plate renewal notice! This
would not have been generated had a title transfer taken place! The
insurance company has closed the case, claiming a phone call from U.S.
Bancorp was enough to close it. (Mind you, we've had about a dozen
U.S. Bank reps tell us they DO NOT have it and a half dozen reps tells
us they do have it!)
To be honest, we DO NOT want the car back. We now have a very
beautiful 2008 Pontiac G-6. All we want to do is settle this incident
once and for all, for the dunning notices to stop, and for the account
to quietly go away.
Do you think U.S. Bancorp knows it messed up and is trying desperately
to cover their tracks?
I'm also assuming that if they have seized the vehicle (illegally and
against a federal bankruptcy order and several state and local
laws....) and are claiming that it was discharged under bankruptcy, we
can give them that excuse as a way to break us of any amount they
might claim we owe after auctioning off the vehicle. After all, they
can't have their cake and eat it too. It was either discharged and we
are released of financial responsibility because of the bankruptcy.
Or....the loan was re-affirmed and therefore U.S. Bancorp has
illegally seized the vehicle.
Somebody told me that even if it was discharged, if U.S. Bank accepts
just one payment after the bankruptcy, it automatically re-affirms
that debt once again.
Thoughts, opinions, disagreements???
Regards;
Bill in Hanover, MI
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Bill,
This is a bit confusing. You owned a car which may have been stolen. You
called the police and they have filled out the paperwork and done some
investigating. You have called your insurer who has filled out some
paperwork, done some investigating, and sent a check out. The amount of the
check is different from your initial discussion with your insurer and it was
sent directly to the car loan company. For reasons that are not clear you
believe that the loan company has repo'ed your car and also taken the
"stolen car" check from your insurer. You ask for advice.
Did I get this right? Have you notified your insurer? They might want to
investigate this fraud. Have you notified the police/DA? They might want to
investigate this fraud.
I read your post carefully and did not see any claim that the lender had,
in fact, repo'ed the car. Though you do admit that you had gone bankrupt a
while back and were late with your car payments which might have justified
such repossession.
You should be able to get from your insurer the amount which was paid out
to the lender. You should be able to get from the lender the amount still
owed on your vehicle. You will continue to get dunning notices until you pay
off your debt. The theft of your car does not make the debt go away. Are you
continuing to make your agreed upon monthly payments?
Good luck,
Dave M.
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In article <into04lb7u7oi2jqrtgpdh8f2eupqu317a@4ax.com>,
Bill <ars_wa8mea@netzero.com> wrote:
I was told that since I filed a business bankruptcy in 2005 (sole
proprietorship so I had to list certain personal items for exemption),
and the dept was discharged (It was not. It was reaffirmed and I have
the proof....), they could take my car at any time for any reason and
not even discuss the matter with me and that I should feel lucky that
this much info has been disclosed to me!
You did not have a business bankruptcy in 2005. With a sole
proprietorship, you and the business are one and the same. There
is no separate entity like there is with a corporation or LLC.
As a result, you either filed for personal bankruptcy, which
includes the business, or you put incorrect information on
the bankruptcy filing giving the court the impression that
you were a separate entity.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
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On Apr 21, 7:14 am, Bill <ars_wa8...@netzero.com> wrote:
On February 7th, 2008, we had our car stolen from our driveway. The
first thing the 911 operator asked was if we were in default. We
said, "no." However, just to make sure there wasn't some mistake, we
called U.S. Bancorp in front of the sheriff and sought responses from
TWO different reps of U.S. Bancorp and both of them told us that there
was NOTHING to indicate our car was repo'ed because we were not in
default....we were current with them.
I was told that since I filed a business bankruptcy in 2005 (sole
proprietorship so I had to list certain personal items for exemption),
and the dept was discharged (It was not. It was reaffirmed and I have
the proof....), they could take my car at any time for any reason and
not even discuss the matter with me and that I should feel lucky that
this much info has been disclosed to me!
Check your reaff agreement and the bkcy court order approving it.
Those documents will set out (or at least refer to) the terms of the
"new" agreement. Probably they just incorporated the "old" terms,
which no doubt include a bkcy filing as an event of default. But
since you haven't filed bkcy since re-aff'ing, that can't be the
default. Sending the a cease and desist notice might be, though.
However, it doesn't end there. Since this incident, the account has
remained open. (We have recordings from there automated system.( We've
receive dunning notices. Friday we receive a letter from U.S. Bancorp
demanding their total loss insurance check!
Get back in touch with the sheriff on the stolen car report. Show the
investigating deputy the letter as proof that the car wasn't repo'd.
BTW, you have to keep making the payments even though the car was
stolen, so that may be the reason for the dunning.
And the problem is, no lawyer will take this until we know what we're
dealing with: a stolen vehcile or an illegal seizure of property!
I'm not surprised. Few lawyers would take such a case on contingency
until there is credible evidence to show that US Bancorp is liable.
I'm suspecting, of course, that you won't plunk down a $_____ retainer
fee and pay hourly.
The
insurance company has closed the case, claiming a phone call from U.S.
Bancorp was enough to close it. (Mind you, we've had about a dozen
U.S. Bank reps tell us they DO NOT have it and a half dozen reps tells
us they do have it!)
Send your insurance adjustor a copy of the letter from US Bancorp and
ask him in writing to re-open the claim.
I'm also assuming that if they have seized the vehicle (illegally and
against a federal bankruptcy order and several state and local
laws....)
The reaff agreement and bkcy order would bring the debt and any repo
outside the automatic stay.
and are claiming that it was discharged under bankruptcy, we
can give them that excuse as a way to break us of any amount they
might claim we owe after auctioning off the vehicle. After all, they
can't have their cake and eat it too. It was either discharged and we
are released of financial responsibility because of the bankruptcy.
Or....the loan was re-affirmed and therefore U.S. Bancorp has
illegally seized the vehicle.
Have you considered that you may have defaulted AFTER the reaff
agreement and order? Couldn't that make the repo lawful?
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