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My wife and I recently moved into a larger apartment which apparently
has very thin walls and floors. Both my wife and I work 12 hours a
day and rarely play music or have visitors. After our first month, we
received a letter from the tenant below us complaining about our
walking with shoes on and telling us that our lease says we must have
the apartment 90% carpeted. I looked at the lease and after digging
through all the fine print I confirmed what the tenant wrote. Being
asthmatic and allergic, I solved the problem by wearing only slippers
in the house and applying felt bottoms to all my furniture. On
Thanksgiving, after my visitors went home, my wife and I, and another
couple stayed in the living room playing cards with no music or
television. At 11:30pm we heard loud banging on the wall, we stopped
playing and then resumed and so did the banging. It became obvious it
was the tenant next door and that their bedroom was on the other side
of our livingroom, and so we lowered our voices to almost a whisper,
and wrapped up the game in the next 15 minutes and our visitors went
home. Today I received another letter of complaint, this time from
the landlord stating that a tenant complained about exessive noise
coming from our apartment at very late hours. I am positive it is
from the tenant who banged on the wall on thanksgiving.
I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable in my apartment. I feel the
landlord should have mentioned how thin the walls and floors were,
rather than bury the floor problem in the lease, and send me letters
of complaint because of the walls. Doesn't the landlord have any
obligation to ensure that there is sufficient soundproofing between
apartments? I would prefer to move out rather than continue to have to
walk on pins and needles because of the thin walls and floors. I
lived in my last apartment for 10 years and never once did anyone
complain. Is there anything about my situation that would help me to
break the lease? Is there anything at all that I can do about this
situation?
Thanks
A good neighbor gone bad
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Ned,
You should probably try to work something out with your neighbors or at
least find out what their problems are. If your asthma prevents you from
complying with the noise abatement requirements of your lease you need to
speak with the landlord. If the walls and floors are "thin" then it is
surprising that you've not noticed noise coming from your neighbors.
It is possible that a local tenants rights organization or the
switchboard at city hall can direct you to the codes and the agency which
may handle your complaint. As a last resort you may wish to buy some time
from a local lawyer but this will probably not be cost effective unless you
intend to continue to break your lease.
Good luck,
Dave M.
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In article <4a251bdf.0312011710.64bfc53f@posting.google.com> nedhart@hotmail.com (Ned Hart) writes:
,,, and telling us that our lease says we must have
the apartment 90% carpeted. I looked at the lease and after digging
through all the fine print I confirmed what the tenant wrote. Being
asthmatic and allergic, I solved the problem by wearing only slippers
in the house and applying felt bottoms to all my furniture.
The lease says that you have to have the apartment 90% carpeted.
It was in there when you signed it, and if you have a problem with
carpeting, you should have rented elsewhere. It's certainly not
unreasonable for another tenant to complain because they are being
affected by a lease requirement you have decided not to follow, but
they have to.
Your "solution" might be an alternative if the only thing that a
carpet provides is a cushioning of your footsteps, but that's not
the only thing that carpeting does. It provides sound insulation
between the units and absorbs sound, too. As an example, radio
studios often have carpet on the walls to deaden the sound and
provide isolation from other studios, even though people don't
walk on the walls.
Try to find some carpet that will deaden the sound transfer that
doesn't affect you. If you really can't, then talk with your
landlord about possible alternatives or whether he will let you
terminate the lease so you can move to some place where you can
follow the lease requirements.
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My wife and I recently moved into a larger apartment which apparently
has very thin walls and floors. Both my wife and I work 12 hours a
day and rarely play music or have visitors. After our first month, we
received a letter from the tenant below us complaining about our
walking with shoes on and telling us that our lease says we must have
the apartment 90% carpeted. I looked at the lease and after digging
through all the fine print I confirmed what the tenant wrote. Being
asthmatic and allergic, I solved the problem by wearing only slippers
in the house and applying felt bottoms to all my furniture. On
Thanksgiving, after my visitors went home, my wife and I, and another
couple stayed in the living room playing cards with no music or
television. At 11:30pm we heard loud banging on the wall, we stopped
playing and then resumed and so did the banging. It became obvious it
was the tenant next door and that their bedroom was on the other side
of our livingroom, and so we lowered our voices to almost a whisper,
and wrapped up the game in the next 15 minutes and our visitors went
home. Today I received another letter of complaint, this time from
the landlord stating that a tenant complained about exessive noise
coming from our apartment at very late hours. I am positive it is
from the tenant who banged on the wall on thanksgiving.
I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable in my apartment. I feel the
landlord should have mentioned how thin the walls and floors were,
rather than bury the floor problem in the lease, and send me letters
of complaint because of the walls. Doesn't the landlord have any
obligation to ensure that there is sufficient soundproofing between
apartments? I would prefer to move out rather than continue to have to
walk on pins and needles because of the thin walls and floors. I
lived in my last apartment for 10 years and never once did anyone
complain. Is there anything about my situation that would help me to
break the lease? Is there anything at all that I can do about this
situation?
You don't have to worry about breaking the lease. Just ignore the
complaints. The landlord will evict you. And when you move to a new
apartment, read the lease before signing rather than after.
McGyver
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I am not a lawyer.
Ned Hart wrote:
My wife and I recently moved into a larger apartment which apparently
has very thin walls and floors. [...]
From what you've posted, my experience says that your activity is in no
way abnormal, and that sound insulation is inadequate, or that the
apartment neighbour's response is overly sensitive.
[...] telling us that our lease says we must have the apartment 90%
carpeted. I looked at the lease and after digging [...] confirmed what
the tenant wrote. [...]
You didn't state what part of the world you are in, and under what
jurisdiction, or whether you're renting an apartment, or leasing a
privately owned condominium unit. In my Canadian experience:
(1) superintendents often deal with noise complaints, but this is
unfortunate, because it's ultimately up to municipal bylaws, and whoever
enforces them (local police, usually; sometimes a special bylaw
enforcement officer, although I don't usually think of them working
outside of 9-5). Here, we have good enforcement, so they don't mind
coming out for blasting stereos, if there aren't too many murders going on
at the time. Creaking floor-boards and voices through the wall? A
complainer would be lucky if the investigating officers just laughed it
off.
(2) if the lease mentions 90% carpeting in your apartment, it's because
this issue has been brought up before in this building. Why is that?
(3) it's usually a landlord's responsibility to provide and maintain
carpeting (here, anyway), and certainly to provide a living unit that at
least complies with the lease's own requirements. (e.g. why paint an
entrance door bright pink, then let the apartment, and insist that the
tenant have a subdued grey, cream or white colour on the door; i.e. why
insist on ultra-quiet, when the floors and walls are deficient?)
[...] I solved the problem by wearing only slippers in the house and
applying felt bottoms to all my furniture. [...]
For those just tuning in, this should speak to the lengths to which you've
gone in appeasing your neighbours. It's not an excessive concession for
those who would like to get along; but it's an excessive demand, I think,
upon somebody wanting to assert their rights while living in their own
home. Apparently it's not good enough.
On Thanksgiving, after my visitors went home, my wife and I, and another
couple stayed in the living room playing cards with no music or
television. At 11:30pm we heard loud banging on the wall, we stopped
playing and then resumed and so did the banging. It became obvious it
was the tenant next door and that their bedroom was on the other side
of our livingroom, and so we lowered our voices to almost a whisper,
and wrapped up the game in the next 15 minutes and our visitors went
home. [...]
Usually these complaints are due to noise assisted by amplified technology
like stereos and cranked TVs. Some groups of card players can be too
noisy. I'm assuming there was no gunfire involved. But usually
"splitting the night with the roar of their jokes"[1] settles down upon
complaint, and it's not a problem immediately commensurate with simply
resuming a card game. Your neighbours do sound overly sensitive; either
that or the sound insulation is completely inadequate.
Today I received another letter of complaint, this time from the
landlord [a previous one was from offended neighbours] stating that
a tenant complained about exessive noise coming from our apartment at
very late hours. I am positive it is from the tenant who banged on
the wall on thanksgiving.
I wouldn't worry about who is complaining, if they're not complaining
directly to you. Maybe the building construction is deficient; maybe the
complaining neighbours are too sensitive. Don't take it personally, and
don't involve them, if they aren't involving themselves directly with you.
I personally applaud them for having the guts (or foolhardiness) to deal
with you directly with the first letter, even if their noise pollution
requirements are unreasonable. But they obviously think that their
complaint is better dealt with by the landlord. Go with that for now.
I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable in my apartment. [...]
Despite legal solutions, it's obvious that you're going to be
uncomfortable there. I believe you have the "upper legal hand", and even
the upper moral hand; but why not seek out another apartment in the
meantime.
Is there anything about my situation that would help me to break the
lease? Is there anything at all that I can do about this situation?
I wouldn't break the lease, but rather let the landlord decide if you're
welcome to stay. In these parts, crudely speaking, it's about two months'
worth of rent to hire a professional moving crew and pay utilities and
mail delivery to switch you to a new address.
Here, you generally have last month's rent on deposit, so tailor this two
months' rent to your own situation. Offer to the landlord that you'll
accept a refund of your last month's rent, and paid occupancy (no rent
due) for 30 days after notice. (Basically you want two months rent free,
to cover your moving costs.)
If you're really a crappy tenant, he'll gladly house you free for 60 days
if he's assured that you'll be out of his hair by then. Otherwise, he
might consider any number of previous tenants who left your apartment, and
reflect on whether it's the complainers that might be better encouraged to
leave.
If you line up other accommodation on your own initiative, approach the
landlord about getting out with no penalties. Here, we have good
enforcement, but if I used a rental property as practice space for my
Crank-2000, amp-blaster metal band, I could get away with it for probably
90 days at least, if I decided to say @$#* you all.
I don't see that you're being unreasonable. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but
I suggest that you work out a way for you to move, and for the landlord to
pay for it (by giving you some rent free living to get out); and I suggest
that you're probably in no danger of being sanctioned (apart from hassle
from the landlord and/or disapproving neighbours), and to do it on your
own terms.
But I ramble,
[1] "splitting the night with the roar of their jokes"
quoted from "The Port of Amsterdam" by Jacques Brel
--
Willondon
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At 11:30pm we heard loud banging on the wall, we stopped
playing and then resumed and so did the banging. It became obvious it
If I were you, I'd find out if I was being a nuisance, otherwise they might
be banging on your head next.
B.O.
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