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Can I still Evict tenants if I've lost my copy of the lease??



afleetwood67@yahoo.com (napgirl)
12/15/2003 10:24:28 AM


Unfortunately, I've been very disorganized and can not find my copy of
the original lease. My tennants have been consistently late on rent
for several months and are now determined to use their security
deposit for their last month's rent. I have explained that they can
not do this as it leaves me nothing for repairs and damages- they will
not return my calls at this time. I plan on delivery a 3 day quit or
pay rent notice with them today- BUT I don't think I can pursue
further eviction processes as I have LOST my copy of the lease. They
have been renting my property for one year as of this month and plan
to move out in 3-4 weeks (also not giving me a definite move out
date).
Can I still evict? Can I do anything??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Tam
12/15/2003 8:08:11 PM


Possible in principle if the judge finds you more credible than the tenant.
I've seen it happen where the company alleges that it is their policy that
no customer can do business with them without signing the standard contract,
and that it's impossible that he could have gotten away without signing,
but, sorry, they lost their copy ... and they won their case.
The tenant will have the opportunity to present his/her copy of the lease.
If you've both lost your leases, then you are left with a month-to-month
tenancy, which may be no worse than what you now have.
Check your jurisdiction's case law.
On 15/12/03 18:24, in article
40b426ce.0312151024.25b3a4a4@posting.google.com, "napgirl"
<afleetwood67@yahoo.com> wrote:
Unfortunately, I've been very disorganized and can not find my copy of
the original lease. My tennants have been consistently late on rent
for several months and are now determined to use their security
deposit for their last month's rent. I have explained that they can
not do this as it leaves me nothing for repairs and damages- they will
not return my calls at this time. I plan on delivery a 3 day quit or
pay rent notice with them today- BUT I don't think I can pursue
further eviction processes as I have LOST my copy of the lease. They
have been renting my property for one year as of this month and plan
to move out in 3-4 weeks (also not giving me a definite move out
date).
Can I still evict? Can I do anything??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Isaac
12/15/2003 8:45:26 PM


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:08:11 +0000, Tam <tamsuraiya@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Possible in principle if the judge finds you more credible than the tenant.
I've seen it happen where the company alleges that it is their policy that
no customer can do business with them without signing the standard contract,
and that it's impossible that he could have gotten away without signing,
but, sorry, they lost their copy ... and they won their case.
The tenant will have the opportunity to present his/her copy of the lease.
If you've both lost your leases, then you are left with a month-to-month
tenancy, which may be no worse than what you now have.
Check your jurisdiction's case law.
Also, the lease terms simply specify the form of your recovery. Even
without the written agreement that the deposit can be applied to damages,
the tenants still owe you for damages to the premises. (Probably not
including ordinary wear and tear) The question is whether you have to get
a judgment against them or whether you can deduct the damages from the
deposit.
So, are you going to sue them for the last month's rent or for damages to
the premises. You don't have enough of the tenant's money to cover both
right?
Isaac
 
 
"Richard"
12/15/2003 7:28:42 PM


napgirl wrote:
Unfortunately, I've been very disorganized and can not find my copy of
the original lease. My tennants have been consistently late on rent
for several months and are now determined to use their security
deposit for their last month's rent. I have explained that they can
not do this as it leaves me nothing for repairs and damages- they will
not return my calls at this time. I plan on delivery a 3 day quit or
pay rent notice with them today- BUT I don't think I can pursue
further eviction processes as I have LOST my copy of the lease. They
have been renting my property for one year as of this month and plan
to move out in 3-4 weeks (also not giving me a definite move out
date).
Can I still evict? Can I do anything??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If they are planning on moving out in that time, just give them a notice
that says as of 2-1-04 they will be formerly evicted. Security deposit will
not be returned as they had not paid in accordance with the agreement.
The only effective means of legal advice, is to hire an attorney.
 
 
"Bill Smith" <51d93uv02@NoSpam.sneakemail.com>
12/16/2003 3:01:02 AM




"napgirl" <afleetwood67@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40b426ce.0312151024.25b3a4a4@posting.google.com...

Unfortunately, I've been very disorganized and can not find my copy of
the original lease. My tennants have been consistently late on rent
for several months and are now determined to use their security
deposit for their last month's rent. I have explained that they can
not do this as it leaves me nothing for repairs and damages- they will
not return my calls at this time. I plan on delivery a 3 day quit or
pay rent notice with them today- BUT I don't think I can pursue
further eviction processes as I have LOST my copy of the lease. They
have been renting my property for one year as of this month and plan
to move out in 3-4 weeks (also not giving me a definite move out
date).
Can I still evict? Can I do anything??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm not a lawyer and cannot provide you with legal advice. I was, however, a
landlord in the state of Washington for 15 years and can provide you with
the benefit of that experience.
OK, lets try to inject a bit of common sense here. Firstly; you, as
landlord, can't lawfully evict anyone. That's the County Sheriff's (or other
designated legal authority) prerogative. For most jurisdictions the landlord
will file an unlawful detainer action against the tenant and if successful
may ask the court to issue a writ of restitution. The landlord presents the
writ to the Sheriff and he or his deputy will put the tenant and their
belongings out (the eviction). That process can take anywhere from 30-180
days to run its course depending on the jurisdiction.
You say the tenant will be gone in 3-4 weeks. It is pointless as well as
expensive to file for unlawful detainer against someone who is already
leaving. OK, the tenant is not going to pay the last months rent and intends
to convert the security deposit. It probably doesn't matter because it is
too late to prevent that now. You should have collected First, Last and
Security Deposit. When he vacates, you'll have to do an accounting for the
security deposit and any rent owing. Do it, and present him with the
bill/statement at his last known address within the time frame allowed in
your jurisdiction. If he fails to pay the debt you can seek redress in small
claims court, hire an attorney and have him file in superior court or turn
the bill over to a collection agency and let them file/collect for you.
Typically, you get around fifty cents on the dollar for a collection agency.
Legal fees will eat up anything a lawyer collects unless there's major
damage. Small claims court can get you a judgment, but you'll have to
identify his assets for the Sheriff to attach.
Not having the lease will be a minor problem. Try to collect what
documentation you do have such as condition reports, rent receipts,
photographs of the damages or whatever you do have. You'll just have to
convince the court of your honesty and reasonableness. If the tenant appears
and admits he lived there he will be obligated to pay for his lodging with
or without a written agreement. Just how much will be debatible. You present
your position, he presents his. The judge will decide.
Personally, I like to prevent the problem up front or negotiate with the
tenant. In the alternative, turn it over to collections. If you are going to
be successful in the rental business you'll need to approach it in a
professional manner. You might want to start out by joining your local
apartment operators association or reading the material available at your
local library on how to be a successful landlord. Understanding the law in
your jurisdiction and your responsibilities under it is the first step.
Google on landlord/tenant +State for info on laws in your jurisdiction or
tell us what it is.
 
 
"Richard"
12/16/2003 12:01:39 AM


Bill Smith wrote:


"napgirl" <afleetwood67@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40b426ce.0312151024.25b3a4a4@posting.google.com...

I'm not a lawyer and cannot provide you with legal advice. I was,
however, a landlord in the state of Washington for 15 years and can
provide you with the benefit of that experience.
OK, lets try to inject a bit of common sense here. Firstly; you, as
landlord, can't lawfully evict anyone. That's the County Sheriff's (or
other designated legal authority) prerogative. For most jurisdictions the
landlord will file an unlawful detainer action against the tenant and if
successful may ask the court to issue a writ of restitution. The landlord
presents the writ to the Sheriff and he or his deputy will put the tenant
and their belongings out (the eviction). That process can take anywhere
from 30-180 days to run its course depending on the jurisdiction.
You say the tenant will be gone in 3-4 weeks. It is pointless as well as
expensive to file for unlawful detainer against someone who is already
leaving. OK, the tenant is not going to pay the last months rent and
intends to convert the security deposit. It probably doesn't matter
because it is too late to prevent that now. You should have collected
First, Last and Security Deposit. When he vacates, you'll have to do an
accounting for the security deposit and any rent owing. Do it, and
present him with the bill/statement at his last known address within the
time frame allowed in your jurisdiction. If he fails to pay the debt you
can seek redress in small claims court, hire an attorney and have him
file in superior court or turn the bill over to a collection agency and
let them file/collect for you. Typically, you get around fifty cents on
the dollar for a collection agency. Legal fees will eat up anything a
lawyer collects unless there's major damage. Small claims court can get
you a judgment, but you'll have to identify his assets for the Sheriff to
attach.
Not having the lease will be a minor problem. Try to collect what
documentation you do have such as condition reports, rent receipts,
photographs of the damages or whatever you do have. You'll just have to
convince the court of your honesty and reasonableness. If the tenant
appears and admits he lived there he will be obligated to pay for his
lodging with or without a written agreement. Just how much will be
debatible. You present your position, he presents his. The judge will
decide.
Personally, I like to prevent the problem up front or negotiate with the
tenant. In the alternative, turn it over to collections. If you are going
to be successful in the rental business you'll need to approach it in a
professional manner. You might want to start out by joining your local
apartment operators association or reading the material available at your
local library on how to be a successful landlord. Understanding the law
in your jurisdiction and your responsibilities under it is the first
step.
Google on landlord/tenant +State for info on laws in your jurisdiction or
tell us what it is.
The landlord has the right to evict a tenant for cause based upon the signed
agreement.
When the tenant refuses to leave, then the courts may become involved and
direct the sheriff to aid in eviction.
It is the job of the courts to determine who was in violation of what and
penalties should be granted.
It is NOT the job of the courts to act as a babysitter.
The landlord has the ultimate decision to evict, the courts only make it
mandatory and penalize the tenant for not doing so.
I recently read the laws on landlord/tenant rights in wisconsin and learned
quite a bit.
It would appear that the practice followed by many landlords is highly
illegal.
One says a 15 day notice will be given, while another says 5 days.
Yet state law mandates a 28 day notice shall be given when the rental period
is by the month.
 
 
"Bill Smith" <51d93uv02@NoSpam.sneakemail.com>
12/16/2003 10:58:39 AM


Richard:
One more time. Try to talk to the OP and stay away from me. You're too
St00pid to bother with.
For the unaware:
Bullis is a well known net kook. He knows nothing about law and even less
about landlord/tenant. Try Googling on "Richard Bullis" or "Richard S.
Bullis". Here are some of the results I've found:
http://www.lart.com/rtsfaq/
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/unit24/cenkoc/
Interesting reading to say the least. Anyone following his suggestions will
probabably find themselves in jail or or in need of an attorney. Richard
even has several newsgroups and his own FAQ. Go here:
http://tinyurl.com/zfvf
 
 
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