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A couple of weeks ago, someone that I do not know died of an overdose of heroin. The only reason I know anything about this is because the man who overdosed and died had a wife whom I knew rather well from a chatroom I frequented. Let me give you the story: The husband had been drinking, and had taken a couple of valiums, or similar tranquilizers. Then, soon afterwards. he injected himself with a "half a bag" of heroin (I have no idea how much heroin that is). Very, very soon thereafter, the wife, who was in the chatroom during the time her husband had injected the heroin, and presumably had also injected some heroin as well, typed that "Mark" had passed out, saying "what a pussy; only a half bag." Someone in the chatroom suggested she take his pulse. The wife did take his pulse, and said he had a pulse. Some other chatter then said to give the husband mouth to mouth respiration. I do not know if this was done, but apparently some time passed, and this wife, let us call her "Mary," finally tried to revive him, by putting cold water on him, which did not revive him. From what I gather, HOURS actually passed while "Mary" continued chatting in the chatroom. It has been said that she just thought that "Mark" was in a "heavy nod." He was snoring. Then after this rather long period of time, "Mark" stopped snoring, and, EVENTUALLY, "Mary" finally called for an ambulance. From what I have heard, "Mark" died soon after he arrived at the hospital, but I am not completely sure when he died. Now, "Mary" is apparently in a great deal of trouble with the law. Both she and her now dead husband were moderate users of heroin, but by no means everyday "junkies." One more thing that may or may not be important is that the two were not legally married, but had lived together for a long time, and had two children together. "Mary" had been sniffing heroin for quite a long time, and only in the past couple of months had she started injecting the drug. "Mark" had injected heroin on and off for years. Again, "Mary" is in trouble with the law over the death of "Mark." I have heard that they might pin a manslaughter charge her. She obviously did not seek immediate medical attention for "Mark," but, instead, waited hours to do so, and most likely did not give any form of mouth to mouth respiration to assist him. It seems she just "kept on eye" on him, and did little else. I have no idea whether the police found drugs in their home. They did confiscate her computer, which I imagine would have all kinds of emails, and other misc. evidence, having to do with her regular heroin use. I would appreciate any feedback as to what, if anything, "Mary" might be charged with, so far as the death of "Mark" is concerned. Is it likely she could be charged with manslaughter, or some kind of gross negligence regarding anothers life? Or, is it more likely that the most she could possibly be charged with be that she was under the influence of a controlled substance, or, should they have found the drugs, that she would get a simple possession charge? One more thing...would the logs of her chatting away in a chatroom while "Mark" lay dying, if they got into the hands of the authorities, be legitimate evidence of her seeming lack of concern over the welfare of her dying partner? If anyone has any answers to my questions, please respond to this post at your earliest convenience. Thank you in advance. Rick Henderson
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Rick Henderson wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, someone that I do not know died of an overdose of heroin. The only reason I know anything about this is because the man who overdosed and died had a wife whom I knew rather well from a chatroom I frequented. Let me give you the story:
She'll be charged with illegal possession. Even if they find no traces at the scene. This can be accomplished by testing her blood which will prove she had the drug in her possession. I doubt seriously if she'll be charged for her husband's death, which was really his own doing. Drug abuse is something you get addicted to and is not a "casual" thing. I have no sympathy for any person who puts the crap in his bloodstream just to get a buzz.
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You didn't post the state where this happened. In PA, there are several crimes with which she could be charged. The most serious is drug delivery resulting in death, which is equivalent to 3rd degree murder, for giving the husband the drugs which resulted in his death. Alternatively, she could be charged with involuntary manslaughter, if she negligently caused his death by not acting. This is a first degree misdemeanor. Assuming a spotless prior record, the involuntary manslaughter conviction could get a minimum of 3 to 12 months (or perhaps house arrest, boot camp, or other restrictive programming) to a maximum of 5 years. This can be accompanied by a fine of up to $10,000. This is per the statutory sentencing guidelines. The drug delivery resulting in death charge would yield a miniumum of 5 years in the state jail and a fine of at least $15,000, to a maximum of 40 years. Note that for this crime, the court has no authority to downgrade the charge or modify the miniumum sentence. The logs are admissible by the prosecution to the extent they are relevant to each element of each crime, or for impeachment purposes.
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auto345112@hushmail.com wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, someone that I do not know died of an overdose of heroin. The only reason I know anything about this is because the man who overdosed and died had a wife whom I knew rather well from a chatroom I frequented. Let me give you the story: The husband had been drinking, and had taken a couple of valiums, or similar tranquilizers. Then, soon afterwards. he injected himself with a "half a bag" of heroin (I have no idea how much heroin that is). Very, very soon thereafter, the wife, who was in the chatroom during the time her husband had injected the heroin, and presumably had also injected some heroin as well, typed that "Mark" had passed out, saying "what a pussy; only a half bag." Someone in the chatroom suggested she take his pulse. The wife did take his pulse, and said he had a pulse. Some other chatter then said to give the husband mouth to mouth respiration. I do not know if this was done, but apparently some time passed, and this wife, let us call her "Mary," finally tried to revive him, by putting cold water on him, which did not revive him. From what I gather, HOURS actually passed while "Mary" continued chatting in the chatroom. It has been said that she just thought that "Mark" was in a "heavy nod." He was snoring. Then after this rather long period of time, "Mark" stopped snoring, and, EVENTUALLY, "Mary" finally called for an ambulance. From what I have heard, "Mark" died soon after he arrived at the hospital, but I am not completely sure when he died. Now, "Mary" is apparently in a great deal of trouble with the law. Both she and her now dead husband were moderate users of heroin, but by no means everyday "junkies." One more thing that may or may not be important is that the two were not legally married, but had lived together for a long time, and had two children together. "Mary" had been sniffing heroin for quite a long time, and only in the past couple of months had she started injecting the drug. "Mark" had injected heroin on and off for years. Again, "Mary" is in trouble with the law over the death of "Mark." I have heard that they might pin a manslaughter charge her. She obviously did not seek immediate medical attention for "Mark," but, instead, waited hours to do so, and most likely did not give any form of mouth to mouth respiration to assist him. It seems she just "kept on eye" on him, and did little else. I have no idea whether the police found drugs in their home. They did confiscate her computer, which I imagine would have all kinds of emails, and other misc. evidence, having to do with her regular heroin use. I would appreciate any feedback as to what, if anything, "Mary" might be charged with, so far as the death of "Mark" is concerned. Is it likely she could be charged with manslaughter, or some kind of gross negligence regarding anothers life? Or, is it more likely that the most she could possibly be charged with be that she was under the influence of a controlled substance, or, should they have found the drugs, that she would get a simple possession charge? One more thing...would the logs of her chatting away in a chatroom while "Mark" lay dying, if they got into the hands of the authorities, be legitimate evidence of her seeming lack of concern over the welfare of her dying partner? If anyone has any answers to my questions, please respond to this post at your earliest convenience. Thank you in advance.
Did they enter the dance contest at Jackrabbit Slim's before they snorted the white?
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auto345112@hushmail.com (Rick Henderson) wrote in message news:<98ee423f.0402210919.111174b1@posting.google.com>...
A couple of weeks ago, someone that I do not know died of an overdose of heroin. The only reason I know anything about this is because the man who overdosed and died had a wife whom I knew rather well from a chatroom I frequented.
[long story made short]
Again, "Mary" is in trouble with the law over the death of "Mark." I have heard that they might pin a manslaughter charge her. She obviously did not seek immediate medical attention for "Mark," but, instead, waited hours to do so, and most likely did not give any form of mouth to mouth respiration to assist him. It seems she just "kept on eye" on him, and did little else....
I would appreciate any feedback as to what, if anything, "Mary" might be charged with, so far as the death of "Mark" is concerned. Is it likely she could be charged with manslaughter, or some kind of gross negligence regarding anothers life? Or, is it more likely that the most she could possibly be charged with be that she was under the influence of a controlled substance, or, should they have found the drugs, that she would get a simple possession charge?
It would vary a great deal with the state and the ability (and ambition) of the local DA. I could see it being anything from involuntary manslaughter to second-degree murder. It might be instructive to review the various degrees of manslaughter and murder. California, and many other places, distinguish at least four degrees: * First-degree murder. This is generally premeditated, or committed in the course of certain violent felonies. If "special circumstances" are involved, the death penalty can be in scope. Nothing you mention suggests this, unless her state makes allowing a person to die in the course of ordinary drug use out to be "felony murder". * Second-degree murder. This lacks premeditation, but still requires malice, in this case an extreme indifference to human life. Willfully failing to seek medical assistance for someone whose life is in danger, as it appears she did, is arguably the sort of "abandoned and malignant heart" needed to sustain a second-degree murder conviction. The logs that appear to indicate she was indifferent or at best little concerned, and took hours to seek assistance, would support second-degree murder. * Voluntary manslaughter. The difference between second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter is often fine and intensely argued. The classic voluntary manslaughter case is one in which someone is killed in a fight. Since this requires some kind of intent falling short of malice, I don't see it applying. * Involuntary manslaughter. Some states call this "negligent homicide". This is allowing (or causing) someone to die through one's negligence rather than through a deliberate or depraved sort of action. This is probably about the best face one could put on her action: an ordinary person would be concerned enough to seek medical attention if someone collapses while doing drugs; a regular drug user might even be expected to be more alert to the danger and more prompt to act.
One more thing...would the logs of her chatting away in a chatroom while "Mark" lay dying, if they got into the hands of the authorities, be legitimate evidence of her seeming lack of concern over the welfare of her dying partner?
Probably. At best, they don't help; if the prosecution gets them admitted as evidence and makes the case that they show her unconcern, they could even support a murder charge. One objective of her defense would be to make sure the logs don't get admitted; if they are admitted, and they are as you portray them, they could be damning.
If anyone has any answers to my questions, please respond to this post at your earliest convenience. Thank you in advance. Rick Henderson
I'm not a lawyer. She needs a lawyer. Even putting the best face possible on things, she is in serious trouble. -- Chris Green
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cj.green@worldnet.att.net (Christopher Green) wrote in message news:<c31fa7b1.0402212019.5f398d58@posting.google.com>...
auto345112@hushmail.com (Rick Henderson) wrote in message news:<98ee423f.0402210919.111174b1@posting.google.com>... [long story made short] It would vary a great deal with the state and the ability (and ambition) of the local DA. I could see it being anything from involuntary manslaughter to second-degree murder. It might be instructive to review the various degrees of manslaughter and murder. California, and many other places, distinguish at least four degrees: * First-degree murder. This is generally premeditated, or committed in the course of certain violent felonies. If "special circumstances" are involved, the death penalty can be in scope. Nothing you mention suggests this, unless her state makes allowing a person to die in the course of ordinary drug use out to be "felony murder". * Second-degree murder. This lacks premeditation, but still requires malice, in this case an extreme indifference to human life. Willfully failing to seek medical assistance for someone whose life is in danger, as it appears she did, is arguably the sort of "abandoned and malignant heart" needed to sustain a second-degree murder conviction. The logs that appear to indicate she was indifferent or at best little concerned, and took hours to seek assistance, would support second-degree murder. * Voluntary manslaughter. The difference between second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter is often fine and intensely argued. The classic voluntary manslaughter case is one in which someone is killed in a fight. Since this requires some kind of intent falling short of malice, I don't see it applying. * Involuntary manslaughter. Some states call this "negligent homicide". This is allowing (or causing) someone to die through one's negligence rather than through a deliberate or depraved sort of action. This is probably about the best face one could put on her action: an ordinary person would be concerned enough to seek medical attention if someone collapses while doing drugs; a regular drug user might even be expected to be more alert to the danger and more prompt to act. Probably. At best, they don't help; if the prosecution gets them admitted as evidence and makes the case that they show her unconcern, they could even support a murder charge. One objective of her defense would be to make sure the logs don't get admitted; if they are admitted, and they are as you portray them, they could be damning. I'm not a lawyer. She needs a lawyer. Even putting the best face possible on things, she is in serious trouble.
Here is a more lengthy version of the chat room log. The police have confiscated her computer and can easily find the unabridged version of this ver long unabridged log. [22:22] <airwave> @$#*, steve passed out [22:22] <airwave> half a bag, what a pussy [22:22] <Miles> is he breathing? [22:22] <airwave> he's got a pulse [22:23] <airwave> i'll check [22:24] * Joins: Erdrick [22:24] <airwave> his tongue is han ging out he's breathing but won't wake3 up [22:24] <airwave> what do i do [22:24] * Quits: pBong (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Erdrick))) [22:24] * Erdrick is now known as pBong [22:24] * NovaBot sets mode: +v pBong [22:25] <Miles> jab him with some narcan/naltrexone if you have any, that'll teach him [22:25] <Miles> is he seriously that bad off? [22:25] <airwave> he just6 fell on the floor hard [22:26] <airwave> @$#* At that time, she should call 911 and give him mouth-to-mouth. That would most likely have saved him. <snip> [23:05] <airwave> all of a sudden he was collapsed on the table [23:05] <Ann_Hedonia> just asked if he had a douchebag full of heroin [23:05] <Ann_Hedonia> good lord! [23:05] <Ann_Hedonia> gadzooks! [23:05] <airwave> all my yelling and cold water had no effect [23:05] <machine99> poor guy [23:05] <Ann_Hedonia> My psychiatrist had me take a drug test today - what do think the results will be? [23:06] <airwave> then he fell off the chair onto his head [23:06] <Ann_Hedonia> omg [23:06] <Ann_Hedonia> give him a cookie [23:06] <machine99> mouth-mouth! [23:06] <airwave> he's laying here snoring now [23:06] <airwave> i'll give him a pop tart Again, she did nothing I left 23:09 thinking she had things under control. What happened after that I don't know but I'm certain that the cops will get the logs from the IRC network(or her computer) and that they will shut down the channel. At least that's what I think, most IRC networks keep logs in case of 'abuse'. I ESPECIALLY like the part where the partner "Airwave" makes the mention of "giving him a pop tart!!!" I am sure the DA wont be too impressed with this rather flippant sign of lack of concern for her near-dead partner, an hour after he had gone unconscious. Anyone care to speculate about this more detailed log. Rick Henderson
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cj.green@worldnet.att.net (Christopher Green) wrote in message news:<c31fa7b1.0402212019.5f398d58@posting.google.com>...
auto345112@hushmail.com (Rick Henderson) wrote in message news:<98ee423f.0402210919.111174b1@posting.google.com>... [long story made short] It would vary a great deal with the state and the ability (and ambition) of the local DA. I could see it being anything from involuntary manslaughter to second-degree murder. It might be instructive to review the various degrees of manslaughter and murder. California, and many other places, distinguish at least four degrees: * First-degree murder. This is generally premeditated, or committed in the course of certain violent felonies. If "special circumstances" are involved, the death penalty can be in scope. Nothing you mention suggests this, unless her state makes allowing a person to die in the course of ordinary drug use out to be "felony murder". * Second-degree murder. This lacks premeditation, but still requires malice, in this case an extreme indifference to human life. Willfully failing to seek medical assistance for someone whose life is in danger, as it appears she did, is arguably the sort of "abandoned and malignant heart" needed to sustain a second-degree murder conviction. The logs that appear to indicate she was indifferent or at best little concerned, and took hours to seek assistance, would support second-degree murder. * Voluntary manslaughter. The difference between second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter is often fine and intensely argued. The classic voluntary manslaughter case is one in which someone is killed in a fight. Since this requires some kind of intent falling short of malice, I don't see it applying. * Involuntary manslaughter. Some states call this "negligent homicide". This is allowing (or causing) someone to die through one's negligence rather than through a deliberate or depraved sort of action. This is probably about the best face one could put on her action: an ordinary person would be concerned enough to seek medical attention if someone collapses while doing drugs; a regular drug user might even be expected to be more alert to the danger and more prompt to act. Probably. At best, they don't help; if the prosecution gets them admitted as evidence and makes the case that they show her unconcern, they could even support a murder charge. One objective of her defense would be to make sure the logs don't get admitted; if they are admitted, and they are as you portray them, they could be damning. I'm not a lawyer. She needs a lawyer. Even putting the best face possible on things, she is in serious trouble.
The state is Wisconsin, a moderate-sized community not TOO far from Chicago where SHE alone went to score the heroin, her partner did not do the scoring.
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On 21 Feb 2004 20:19:18 -0800, cj.green@worldnet.att.net (Christopher
* Involuntary manslaughter. Some states call this "negligent homicide". This is allowing (or causing) someone to die through one's negligence rather than through a deliberate or depraved sort of action. This is probably about the best face one could put on her action: an ordinary person would be concerned enough to seek medical attention if someone collapses while doing drugs; a regular drug user might even be expected to be more alert to the danger and more prompt to act.
IM(non-lawyerly)O (which would make it more or a jury-member opinion), this could be the only one that even comes close to applying. Bear in mind these points: *he willfully took the drugs, which included xanax (a bad combo from what I read elsewhere) *he had more experience with H than she did (again, read elsewhere regarding this case) *She was concerned, but failed to realize the gravity of the situation until too late *She herself was quite possibly operating with diminished capacity due to her own use There wasn't any intent to do harm, and having to live with the knowledge that she could have saved someone she loved, IMO, is punishment enough. Nothing good will come of any sentence that could be given to her and their children will only be traumatized that much more.
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A couple of weeks ago, someone that I do not know died of an overdose of heroin. The only reason I know anything about this is because the man who overdosed and died had a wife whom I knew rather well from a chatroom I frequented. Let me give you the story: The husband had been drinking, and had taken a couple of valiums, or similar tranquilizers. Then, soon afterwards. he injected himself with a "half a bag" of heroin
So, what you're saying here, is that "Mark" is the Sole Actor WRT his Drug & Alcohol Injuries which precipitated his Own Death? That "Mary" took No Part in those Actions... [Drinking... Ingesting Valium... Injecting Heroin] that she Did Not Force Alohol into his body... Did Not Force Valium down his throat... and Did Not Herself Tie Off and Inject Heroin into Mark's Vein? That Mark, Of His Own Free Will, Independent of Any Aid from Mary or Others, Imbibed of, and Consumed ALL Drug Intake? (I have no idea how much heroin that is).
Very, very soon thereafter, the wife, who was in the chatroom during the time her husband had injected the heroin,
Guess you Do Mean To Say that Mark "Didit All By Hisself"...
and presumably had also injected some heroin as well,
Wholly Irrelevent...
typed that "Mark" had passed out, saying "what a pussy; only a half bag." Someone in the chatroom suggested she take his pulse. The wife did take his pulse, and said he had a pulse. Some other chatter then said to give the husband mouth to mouth respiration. I do not know if this was done, but apparently some time passed, and this wife, let us call her "Mary," finally tried to revive him, by putting cold water on him, which did not revive him.
Well, particularly In The Absence Of Any Act(s) by a Bystander which is The Direct Cause of... that Directly Led to the Life... Health... Welfare Endangering Conditon, There is No Requirement To Perform a "Rescue" which can be the Subject of Criminal Prohibition... Perhaps there *is* a Civil Duty to Perform a Rescue, but that would only be so in the Event of Some Special Relationship... Such as Parent-Child... Master-Servant... or Principle-Agent...
From what I gather, HOURS actually passed while "Mary" continued chatting in the chatroom. It has been said that she just thought that "Mark" was in a "heavy nod." He was snoring. Then after this rather long period of time, "Mark" stopped snoring, and, EVENTUALLY, "Mary" finally called for an ambulance.
And there's The Rescue Mary performed even though she was Under No Duty to do so...
From what I have heard, "Mark" died soon after he arrived at the hospital,
DESPITE Mary's Best Efforts... [Snip Irrelevence]
Again, "Mary" is in trouble with the law over the death of "Mark." I have heard that they might pin a manslaughter charge her.
They might try to pin a "Second Gunman On The Grassy Knoll charge on her as well... to the Same Effect...
She obviously did not seek immediate medical attention for "Mark," but, instead, waited hours to do so, and most likely did not give any form of mouth to mouth respiration to assist him. It seems she just "kept on eye" on him, and did little else.
But even at that, she MORE than met a Standard Of Care which she was Under No Duty to Undertake... Criminally or Civilly...
I have no idea whether the police found drugs in their home. They did confiscate her computer, which I imagine would have all kinds of emails, and other misc. evidence, having to do with her regular heroin use.
Evidently, Mary, in a Drug-Induced Stupor, made "Admissions" which gave the Suck-Ass Pigs Probable Cause to Arrest Mary... I'm not sure the Impoundment of her computer, ostensibly for purposes of an Evidence Search would have been legal under a "Search Incident To Arrest" Theory...
I would appreciate any feedback as to what, if anything, "Mary" might be charged with, so far as the death of "Mark" is concerned.
IF your account of the Facts is Accurate, Mary need only worry about her Own Drug Use and the loss of her Significant Other... 1. There is no Actus Reus attributable to Mary which caused Mark's [Self-Induced] Death 2. There is no Criminally Proscribed Duty of "Failure To Rescue"
Is it likely she could be charged with manslaughter,
Again, NO..
or some kind of gross negligence regarding anothers life?
And of course, "gross negligence" is a Flavor of Tort and NOT a Crime one can be "Charged" with...
Or, is it more likely that the most she could possibly be charged with be that she was under the influence of a controlled substance, or, should they have found the drugs, that she would get a simple possession charge?
Depends on what She Admitted to the SA Pigs or what they Discovered In Plain Sight...
One more thing...would the logs of her chatting away in a chatroom while "Mark" lay dying, if they got into the hands of the authorities, be legitimate evidence of her seeming lack of concern over the welfare of her dying partner?
Done answered that Question 3 times already...
If anyone has any answers to my questions, please respond to this post at your earliest convenience. Thank you in advance. Rick Henderson
Naughtius "I Wonder Why They Call It ""Dope?"" Maximus
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auto345112@hushmail.com (Rick Henderson) wrote in message news:<98ee423f.0402221100.ee6ae56@posting.google.com>...
cj.green@worldnet.att.net (Christopher Green) wrote in message news:<c31fa7b1.0402212019.5f398d58@posting.google.com>...
[big snip] I'm not a lawyer. She needs a lawyer. Even putting the best face possible on things, she is in serious trouble.
The state is Wisconsin, a moderate-sized community not TOO far from Chicago where SHE alone went to score the heroin, her partner did not do the scoring.
Wisconsin has "reckless homicide": "first-degree reckless homicide" (Statutes 940.02) closely resembles second-degree murder elsewhere. It specifically includes causing death by distributing dangerous drugs that somebody dies from. Wisconsin DAs often charge FDRH in this situation; it can be a class B or class C felony, depending on whether the prosecution can prove "utter disregard for human life". She could be facing as much as 40 or 60 years in prison. See for example http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/firstdegreemurder/, http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_4508282.shtml, and http://www.beloitdailynews.com/402/1wis9.htm She needs a lawyer. You need to refrain from publishing evidence that could be used against her. -- Not a lawyer, Chris Green
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Mike Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<hf2i305q29nfcq59dvnfksed7ug62i1f69@4ax.com>...
On 21 Feb 2004 20:19:18 -0800, cj.green@worldnet.att.net (Christopher IM(non-lawyerly)O (which would make it more or a jury-member opinion), this could be the only one that even comes close to applying. Bear in mind these points: *he willfully took the drugs, which included xanax (a bad combo from what I read elsewhere) *he had more experience with H than she did (again, read elsewhere regarding this case) *She was concerned, but failed to realize the gravity of the situation until too late *She herself was quite possibly operating with diminished capacity due to her own use There wasn't any intent to do harm, and having to live with the knowledge that she could have saved someone she loved, IMO, is punishment enough. Nothing good will come of any sentence that could be given to her and their children will only be traumatized that much more.
Unfortunately for her, state is Wisconsin (see the OP's other posts), where charges that describe her situation closely are "first-degree negligent homicide" -- which is a near equivalent to second-degree murder elsewhere. If evidence that she furnished the drugs and she ignored his obvious need for medical assistance were used against her, it would be damning, and she could get as much as 60 years. -- Not a lawyer, Chris Green
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