|
For nearly a year now, I have been trying to get a Social Security number
for my 8-year old daughter. She is a foreign-born U.S. citizen living
abroad. I am currently living in the U.S., a native American.
I have not been able to file my IRS 1040 forms for calendar years 2001,
2002, and now 2003 is coming up. I am cannot file a PROPER and CORRECT
Form 1040 that I am entitled to file and possible get $3000 in refunds
until I get my daughter's SSN. The IRS does NOT accept Taxpayer IDs
(ITINs) for for U.S. citizens who are listed as dependents on Forms 1040.
All U.S. citizens listed for identification purposes on Forms 1040 MUST
have SSNs.
I first applied directly from my home in the U.S. and sent supporting
documentation, but the SSA said that was inadequate. Application
rejected.
When my daughter came to visit me in the summer, the first thing we did
was go to a local SSA office, but the application process was stopped
because my daughter "only" had a passport. A passport is proof of both
BIRTH and CITIZENSHIP, and moreover it gets you in and out of the United
States. But the SSA had its rules and required a birth certificate.
Of course my daughter's original birth certificate is a document written
in the foreign language. The United States State Department, through its
embassy, has issued a FS-240, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a
United States Citizen, which is a document so valuable that it can be
replaced ONLY ONCE. I obtained the FS-240 and my daughter's passport, in
that order, before I had to return to the United States. When my
daughter came in the summer to the U.S., her FS-240 and her original
birth certificate were left at home. After all, do any of you travel
with your original birth certificate???
The United States State Dept. also issues a DS-1350, a Certification of
Birth Record, to be used in place of the FS-240 as a record of the data
of the birth and citizenship. I asked the SSA through its 800 line if
they accepted a DS-1350, and all I got was long silence. The standard
pat answer was, "we need the original birth certificate." I explained to
the SSA that I would be damned if I would have my wife mail either my
daughter's birth certificate or FS-240 to get the SSN.
It has now progressed to the point that I have written my Congressman and
my two Senators. The one Senator never even replied. The other gave a
half-hearted attempt. I have now asked my Congressman to consider an act
of Congress that actually specifies what documents are acceptable to the
SSA: if the SSA will not accept official documents of the United STates
Department of State concerning birth and citizenship, this is bureaucracy
run amok!
I need to solve this problem now! I know how obstinate the IRS is: they
will absolutely laugh at my attempt to file my daughter's name without
any identifying number. The federal government has $3000 of my tax
withholding (assuming that I am correct about my filing status, and I may
have to have a chat with the IRS about that too!).
I am now wondering if I have to---or even can---go to a court (federal
district court?) to petition a judge to light some fires under asses.
Believe it or not, the standards of the SSA local offices as to proof
apparently vary. In one conversation I had with "Griffin from Alabama"
on the SSA 800 line (the SSA employees do not identify themselves with
number IDs), she told me that the standards of proof of birth are
according to what the local office says! In other words, the standards
are not uniform!! I go to one office, and perhaps get one easily. I go
to another office, I need George W. Bush himself to vouch for me!!
If this is true, it's crazy!
I sent a very terse and demanding set of requests to the SSA through a
complaint form on the web, and the responses were nothing but pasted-in
pat responses to questions I never posed, my own questions having been
ignorned. Thus the SSA is no goddam help.
But then that is what this story is all about.
Is it time for me to find a lawyer who hates the federal bureaucracy as
much as I do, and is willing to try to move a seemingly immovable wall???
Writing to the local newspaper (The Sacramento Bee) is a joke. They
don't publish peoples' sob stories, and the readers don't really pay
attention or they nod in total apathy anyway.
Hey, if you read this far, thanks for reading. If you are frustrated by
the government as much as me, maybe we can team up and be a force for
change. But I am not sanguine about the possibility of our success.
|
| |
| |
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:41:10 GMT, Outraged Citizen
<FranzKafka@UnbearableTrial.org> wrote:
For nearly a year now, I have been trying to get a Social Security number
for my 8-year old daughter. She is a foreign-born U.S. citizen living
abroad. I am currently living in the U.S., a native American.
[snip history of struggles with SSA]
From what I can tell of your problems, you've been dealing entirely
with the lowest-level employees in the system, and have not yet asked
to talk to a supervisor, or tried to appeal any decision within the
SSA itself.
I would suggest that you try once more to apply for the SSN, either by
mail or in person (in person is probably better), and follow-up any
rejection by immediately asking how the problem can be raised with a
supervisor or appealed.
It also sounds like you have not filed any income tax returns, even
though you are owed refunds for more than the personal exemption to
which you might be entitled for your daughter. You should file
returns with the information you have, even if your claim of an
exemption for your daughter is denied, and then file amended returns
once you get a SSN for your daughter.
And finally, are you sure that you are entitled to an exemption for
your daughter? She obviously does not live with you. Do you provide
more than half of her support and, if her mother has custody, has her
mother signed a waiver of the exemption (Form 8332)?
*Dan Evans
*"One is not superior merely because one
*sees the world as odious."
*Francios Rene de Chateaubriand (1768-1848).
|
| |
| |
Outraged,
You may very well need to consult with an attorney since you have failed
to file tax returns for a number of years. This seems to be a separate issue
from the one that you write about here. The remedy for the SSN problem is
obvious and you are aware of it. That you have not taken the easy route of
presenting the birth certificate, have failed to get cooperation from the
SSA, your representative's office, your senator's office, and the local
newspaper strongly suggests that the problem that you are faced with is your
attitude. You can get an SSN any time you wish. You can File a 1040 any time
you wish. If you continue in your present course you will need an attorney.
I doubt you'll take this advice
Good luck
Dave M.
|
| |
| |
he remedy for the SSN problem is
obvious and you are aware of it. That you have not taken the easy route of
presenting the birth certificate, have failed to get cooperation from the
SSA, your representative's office, your senator's office, and the local
newspaper strongly suggests that the problem that you are faced with is your
attitude.
Harsh words, but I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the birth
certificate was left behind at his kid's mother's house the last time the kid
came to visit. It is not at all clear why the certificate could not have been
mailed to the USA--- or for that matter, it is not clear why the mother could
not go to the nearest consulate to apply for the SS Number.
*****
Tim Horrigan <horrigan@aol.com>
*****
|
| |
| |
Outraged Citizen <FranzKafka@UnbearableTrial.org> wrote in message news:<Xns94AEF114BC9A3WSAP1962@64.164.98.50>...
For nearly a year now, I have been trying to get a Social Security number
for my 8-year old daughter. She is a foreign-born U.S. citizen living
abroad. I am currently living in the U.S., a native American.
I have not been able to file my IRS 1040 forms for calendar years 2001,
2002, and now 2003 is coming up. I am cannot file a PROPER and CORRECT
Form 1040 that I am entitled to file and possible get $3000 in refunds
until I get my daughter's SSN. The IRS does NOT accept Taxpayer IDs
(ITINs) for for U.S. citizens who are listed as dependents on Forms 1040.
All U.S. citizens listed for identification purposes on Forms 1040 MUST
have SSNs.
For what it's worth here is the official answer from the SSA's
website.
A URL for the specific web page is (which may or not work in the
future):
http://tinyurl.com/25bl7
The gist of it seems to be that Outraged Citizen is supposed to have
his daughter's mother (or whoever it is who is her primary caregiver)
go to the nearest consulate with proof of birth and citizenship.
-------------------
How do I apply for a SSN for a child who lives outside the U.S.?
Question
I am outside the U.S. and need a Social Security number for my
child. How do I apply?
Answer
If your child lives outside the United States, we can assign the
child a Social Security number if the child is: (1) a U.S. citizen or
(2) a noncitizen admitted to the United States for permanent residence
or with other Department of Homeland Security (DHS) authority to work
in the United States. Otherwise, we can assign the child a number only
if a Social Security number is required by law as a condition of
receiving a federally-funded benefit.
What Form Do I Need?
To apply for a Social Security card for your child if you and the
child live outside the United States, you need to complete and sign
From SS-5-FS (Application for a Social Security Card) which you can
obtain from http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ss-5fs.html. Use this
form if you are applying for a number on behalf of a child who is
living outside the United States.
What Evidence Do I Need?
Form SS-5-FS explains what evidence you will need to submit with your
application.
Where Do I Send the Form?
You should take or mail the completed form with the required original
documents or copies certified by the custodian of the record to the
nearest U.S. Social Security office, U.S. Embassy or Consulate, or if
you live in the Philippines, to the Veterans Affair Regional Office in
Manila. If you are a U.S. military dependent or a U.S. citizen working
on a U.S. military post, you may also go to the Post Adjutant or
Personnel Office. These offices can copy and certify your records so
that you do not have to send original documents through the mail. Do
NOT mail original documents to the Social Security Administration in
Baltimore, Maryland.
Your child's Social Security card will be mailed to you from the
United States.
For more information on services outside the United States, see
http://www.ssa.gov/foreign.
|
| |
| |
Outraged Citizen <FranzKafka@UnbearableTrial.org> writes:
When my daughter came to visit me in the summer, the first thing we did
was go to a local SSA office, but the application process was stopped
because my daughter "only" had a passport. A passport is proof of both
BIRTH and CITIZENSHIP, and moreover it gets you in and out of the United
States. But the SSA had its rules and required a birth certificate.
The SSN application form SS-5-FS at
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ss-5fs.pdf
says:
AGE: We prefer to see your birth certificate. However, we can accept
another document that shows your age...[other choices, including passport].
They do require more than one document, though. Quite likely they wanted
a passport and something else such as a birth certificate. From the
same form:
To apply for an ORIGINAL CARD (you have NEVER been assigned a Social
Security number before), we need at least 2 documents as proof of:
Age, Identity, and U.S. citizenship or lawful alien status.
I will also tell you, based on experience, that most government agencies
will accept as proof of age an affidavit from the parents stating the
date of birth of their child.
--
Rahul
|
| |
| |
If I were you, I'd get my taxes starightened out. Just because you
don't have a social security number for your kid is not going to get
you out of penalties and interest on you taxes. This battle you are
fighting with SSA is probably going to cost you in liability to the
IRS (what about your state taxes?). You should have filed with the
knowledge you can file an ammended return later.
Someone else has already asked if your are sure that you can claim
your daughter as a dependant if she is not living with you. Between
this question and your un-filed returns - you probably need a tax
lawyer.
As far as the getting the SSN for your daughter. It has been
suggested that you escalate to the agency's management. That tax
lawyer you need may be able to help.
You might consider contacting one of your elected representatives like
your congressperson or senator. It's not that they can intimidate the
agency into doing anything, but they may call or send a letter for you
- and they will start their contact with higher management. My wife's
best friend did this for a problem she was having with INS regarding
her non-citizen husband. The issue was instantly escalated above the
front-desk-flunkies and the process "magically" became more efficient.
Outraged Citizen <FranzKafka@UnbearableTrial.org> wrote in message news:<Xns94AEF114BC9A3WSAP1962@64.164.98.50>...
For nearly a year now, I have been trying to get a Social Security number
for my 8-year old daughter. She is a foreign-born U.S. citizen living
abroad. I am currently living in the U.S., a native American.
I have not been able to file my IRS 1040 forms for calendar years 2001,
2002, and now 2003 is coming up. I am cannot file a PROPER and CORRECT
Form 1040 that I am entitled to file and possible get $3000 in refunds
until I get my daughter's SSN. The IRS does NOT accept Taxpayer IDs
(ITINs) for for U.S. citizens who are listed as dependents on Forms 1040.
All U.S. citizens listed for identification purposes on Forms 1040 MUST
have SSNs.
I first applied directly from my home in the U.S. and sent supporting
documentation, but the SSA said that was inadequate. Application
rejected.
When my daughter came to visit me in the summer, the first thing we did
was go to a local SSA office, but the application process was stopped
because my daughter "only" had a passport. A passport is proof of both
BIRTH and CITIZENSHIP, and moreover it gets you in and out of the United
States. But the SSA had its rules and required a birth certificate.
Of course my daughter's original birth certificate is a document written
in the foreign language. The United States State Department, through its
embassy, has issued a FS-240, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a
United States Citizen, which is a document so valuable that it can be
replaced ONLY ONCE. I obtained the FS-240 and my daughter's passport, in
that order, before I had to return to the United States. When my
daughter came in the summer to the U.S., her FS-240 and her original
birth certificate were left at home. After all, do any of you travel
with your original birth certificate???
The United States State Dept. also issues a DS-1350, a Certification of
Birth Record, to be used in place of the FS-240 as a record of the data
of the birth and citizenship. I asked the SSA through its 800 line if
they accepted a DS-1350, and all I got was long silence. The standard
pat answer was, "we need the original birth certificate." I explained to
the SSA that I would be damned if I would have my wife mail either my
daughter's birth certificate or FS-240 to get the SSN.
It has now progressed to the point that I have written my Congressman and
my two Senators. The one Senator never even replied. The other gave a
half-hearted attempt. I have now asked my Congressman to consider an act
of Congress that actually specifies what documents are acceptable to the
SSA: if the SSA will not accept official documents of the United STates
Department of State concerning birth and citizenship, this is bureaucracy
run amok!
I need to solve this problem now! I know how obstinate the IRS is: they
will absolutely laugh at my attempt to file my daughter's name without
any identifying number. The federal government has $3000 of my tax
withholding (assuming that I am correct about my filing status, and I may
have to have a chat with the IRS about that too!).
I am now wondering if I have to---or even can---go to a court (federal
district court?) to petition a judge to light some fires under asses.
Believe it or not, the standards of the SSA local offices as to proof
apparently vary. In one conversation I had with "Griffin from Alabama"
on the SSA 800 line (the SSA employees do not identify themselves with
number IDs), she told me that the standards of proof of birth are
according to what the local office says! In other words, the standards
are not uniform!! I go to one office, and perhaps get one easily. I go
to another office, I need George W. Bush himself to vouch for me!!
If this is true, it's crazy!
I sent a very terse and demanding set of requests to the SSA through a
complaint form on the web, and the responses were nothing but pasted-in
pat responses to questions I never posed, my own questions having been
ignorned. Thus the SSA is no goddam help.
But then that is what this story is all about.
Is it time for me to find a lawyer who hates the federal bureaucracy as
much as I do, and is willing to try to move a seemingly immovable wall???
Writing to the local newspaper (The Sacramento Bee) is a joke. They
don't publish peoples' sob stories, and the readers don't really pay
attention or they nod in total apathy anyway.
Hey, if you read this far, thanks for reading. If you are frustrated by
the government as much as me, maybe we can team up and be a force for
change. But I am not sanguine about the possibility of our success.
|
| |
| |
You might consider contacting one of your elected representatives like
your congressperson or senator. It's not that they can intimidate the
He did that, if you read. What I would do if I were him would be to talk to
the IRS and ask them why they need any sort of numerical representation of a
dependent anyway. It's not like that makes sense for any reason. Make them
audit you by not including the number and see what they do. Explain to them
your situation. The great thing about dealing with the IRS is unless you
withhold a lot on your pay you have what they want, and not vice versa.
It sounds like your situation is the opposite though. See if you can
conference call some upper-level employees between the IRS and SSA and try
and get someone influential to help them both to work things out. The claim
that different offices of the SSA have different standards doesn't make
sense (in theory) so I recommend you try the D.C. branch.
No promises though.
|
| |
| |
|
