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I'm helping someone out of a bad relationship. I need to know is it illegal
for them to (or could they get into any trouble for) hack their "partner"
(trying to keep genders annonymous here) ICQ history files? There IS
software that can read those archived chat logs. I need to make sure that
by helping them they wont be in any trouble. The other person's computer is
on a home network at THEIR home & has been for some time (few months),
including the time that this messaging took place (the date they need to
read from the logs...a week or two ago). They plan to confront the other
with this chat log, combined with screenshots of their system (they were
using a remote monitoring program, used to take controll for remote
controll/admin purposes, only just not controlling the keyboard/mouse & were
instead taking screenshots...again, this person knew this program was
installed & had this ability).
Also for legal purposes, are chat logs evidence? Considering that they can
be forged (& forged & planted on someone else's computer too?) Isn't it a
matter of one person's word vs. another?
They both do live in Oklahoma.
Also, when they finally do kick out the other person, in a room-mate type of
situation, can guest have any say on getting their stuff out of owner's
home? Owner plans to offer it, but only durring their free time (not
missing any work) because they dont want any problems but wants to make sure
guest can't make a fuss about having to fit within the exact time they want
(only a small amount of clothing, shelf with TV & DVD player, & computer, so
not much stuff), different work hrs, same days off.
--
--
There are 10 types of people in this world...
....those who understand binary & those who dont.
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Daniel wrote:
I'm helping someone out of a bad relationship. I need to know is it
illegal for them to (or could they get into any trouble for) hack their
"partner" (trying to keep genders annonymous here) ICQ history files?
There IS software that can read those archived chat logs. I need to make
sure that by helping them they wont be in any trouble. The other
person's computer is on a home network at THEIR home & has been for some
time (few months), including the time that this messaging took place (the
date they need to read from the logs...a week or two ago). They plan to
confront the other with this chat log, combined with screenshots of their
system (they were using a remote monitoring program, used to take
controll for remote controll/admin purposes, only just not controlling
the keyboard/mouse & were instead taking screenshots...again, this person
knew this program was installed & had this ability).
Also for legal purposes, are chat logs evidence? Considering that they
can be forged (& forged & planted on someone else's computer too?) Isn't
it a matter of one person's word vs. another?
They both do live in Oklahoma.
Also, when they finally do kick out the other person, in a room-mate type
of situation, can guest have any say on getting their stuff out of
owner's home? Owner plans to offer it, but only durring their free time
(not missing any work) because they dont want any problems but wants to
make sure guest can't make a fuss about having to fit within the exact
time they want (only a small amount of clothing, shelf with TV & DVD
player, & computer, so not much stuff), different work hrs, same days
off.
--
Any such evidence would probably be tossed out in a court as either hearsay,
or contrived.
That is, any one can produce the evidence of a "log" and claim it to be from
YOUR computer.
But can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt who sent it and when?
While court was in session, one attorney did just that. He produced evidence
right there in the court room that looked like it just came off some "log"
somewhere.
As for kicking out the unwanted person, proper eviction must still be given
and the person MUST be allowed ample time to remove his personal belongings.
You can not simply lock the doors on him and keep his stuff until it's
convenient for you.
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Daniel wrote:
Any such evidence would probably be tossed out in a court as either
hearsay,
or contrived.
That is, any one can produce the evidence of a "log" and claim it to be
from
YOUR computer.
But can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt who sent it and when?
While court was in session, one attorney did just that. He produced
evidence
right there in the court room that looked like it just came off some "log"
somewhere.
As for kicking out the unwanted person, proper eviction must still be
given
and the person MUST be allowed ample time to remove his personal
belongings.
You can not simply lock the doors on him and keep his stuff until it's
convenient for you.
What about if the person isn't officially living there? Just staying for a
time & visiting often? The school of this person's kids as well as the
local government assistance programs/welfare program have their address as
another address (both have same address on file)...there is nothing but one
person's or group of people's word against another that says the person
lives there...nothing official (there is reason to show that the person
spends the night on ocasion & does laundry there & has some of their
belongings (TV, DVD player, & computer, clothing not in a closet or anything
but in laundry bags, as well as a few bath items, nothing to show permanent
or even long time residency, nothing that can be shown as proof of
residency). And what I mean by locking the door is that they want to change
the locks (to make sure only the person's belongings are removed...for
security), & say "I'll give you your stuff...just schedule a time when I'm
off work & I'll give it to you" (the whole moving out process wouldn't take
more than half an hr or more closely to 15 minutes...like I said, not much
is there anyway). The owner is perfectly willing to work with the person,
they only want to keep their home safe in the time as well.
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I'm helping someone out of a bad relationship. I need to know
is it illegal
for them to (or could they get into any trouble for) hack their
"partner"
(trying to keep genders annonymous here) ICQ history files?
I don't know if there could be any real trouble over such a minor
thing, but it is invasion of privacy and is a nasty and useless
thing to do.
They plan to confront the other with this chat log, combined
with
screenshots of their system
Whats the point? How will this confrontation help? Answer: It
won't. It's a stupid idea.
Your friend should:
1. Tell the guest to find a new place to live. No need for
argument, confrontation over ICQ conversations, no need for
reasons, no need to make it into a howling match about a
relationship that is over.
2. If the guest doesn't depart in a reasonably short time,
start the eviction process. I don't know enough about the
situation to know whether the person could be simply escorted out
and told to hit the road. So the safe advice is do a legal
eviction. The correct answer could be had relatively cheaply
through a short consultation with a local landlord/tenant
attorney.
3. Take an hour off of work anytime the guest asks, so that
he/she can get the stuff. Be nice.
McGyver
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Daniel wrote:
hearsay,
from
evidence
given
belongings.
What about if the person isn't officially living there? Just staying for
a time & visiting often? The school of this person's kids as well as the
local government assistance programs/welfare program have their address
as another address (both have same address on file)...there is nothing
but one person's or group of people's word against another that says the
person lives there...nothing official (there is reason to show that the
person spends the night on ocasion & does laundry there & has some of
their belongings (TV, DVD player, & computer, clothing not in a closet or
anything but in laundry bags, as well as a few bath items, nothing to
show permanent or even long time residency, nothing that can be shown as
proof of residency). And what I mean by locking the door is that they
want to change the locks (to make sure only the person's belongings are
removed...for security), & say "I'll give you your stuff...just schedule
a time when I'm off work & I'll give it to you" (the whole moving out
process wouldn't take more than half an hr or more closely to 15
minutes...like I said, not much is there anyway). The owner is perfectly
willing to work with the person, they only want to keep their home safe
in the time as well.
In that case, go for it.
Tell the unwanted "guest" this is his last day and he is no longer welcome.
If he wants his personal belongings, come over and get them when I'm there
or after a certain date it all goes to goodwill or what ever.
Since he's not paying rent of any kind, he has nothing to stand on legally.
If he's found in the house again after a certain date, he's criminally
trespassing.
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From: "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001>
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Instant message history log...
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:42:35 -0500
No more tater hauling for Lyin' Lawyer Bullis. Three weeks of posting
during "working" hours and no new weekly trip report. SPNAK!!1!
Daniel wrote:
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Daniel wrote:
In that case, go for it.
Tell the unwanted "guest" this is his last day and he is no longer
welcome.
If he wants his personal belongings, come over and get them when I'm there
or after a certain date it all goes to goodwill or what ever.
Since he's not paying rent of any kind, he has nothing to stand on
legally.
If he's found in the house again after a certain date, he's criminally
trespassing.
Thats what I was thinking anyway. Just didn't want to get them into any
trouble if at all possible. No rent, plus school & local government
assistance programs all say the guest is at another address (& it wouldn't
be a smart idea for them to try to say they were lieing to the government
about where they lived & who they were with, especially if they dont really
live there anyway). Main thing I was wondering was could they get into
trouble for invasion of privacy if the chats happened while the computer was
on THEIR home network durring the time the logs were made as well as durring
the time they were read (& the person knew they had the ability to do this).
I'd personally consider it like someone coming into my home, laying personal
documents/info down, knowing I saw where they put it, & knowing I know how
to read, then leaving it there (not saying I can, but also not saying I
cant). The logs may not be necessarry...but just in case they (guest)
brought them up (accused owner of reading them), didnt want the owner to get
into any trouble if they did. But it looks like it is & will be more of a
"you are not living here, you've stayed the night here & spent allot of time
here, you have a few of your belongings here, mainly because you don't have
room for them elsewhere, you dont contribute, everyone else says you live
elsewhere, you dont officially live here anyway, now you're not allowed
back, get your things--I'll even help you leave, or schedule a time to pick
them up (in pieces or all at once, just keep it reasonable), come back &
it's tresspassing, enter & it's breaking & entering (lock will be changed)."
I help allot of people, but at the same time try to not help them get
into any more trouble.
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From: "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001>
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Instant message history log...
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:42:35 -0500
No more tater hauling for Lyin' Lawyer Bullis. Three weeks of posting
during "working" hours and no new weekly trip report. SPNAK!!1!
Do you think that he got fired or he's still on the payroll and they're just
not bothering to return his calls anymore? Personally given his admittance
of how he was being the "tattletale" of his company and how he kept
complaining about the boss's relatives, I don't think he lasted very long
with them.
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Daniel wrote:
Any such evidence would probably be tossed out in a court as either
hearsay,
or contrived.
And where did you get such marvelous "legal" advice, st00pid?
That is, any one can produce the evidence of a "log" and claim it to be
from
YOUR computer.
Uh-huh. Is this going to be your defense argument when you are arrested and
your computer seized?
But can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt who sent it and when?
Yes you can, st00pid.
While court was in session, one attorney did just that. He produced
evidence
right there in the court room that looked like it just came off some "log"
somewhere.
Don't let those pesky facts keep your claims from popping up, st00pid.
As for kicking out the unwanted person, proper eviction must still be
given
and the person MUST be allowed ample time to remove his personal
belongings.
Is this what happened to you, st00pid?
You can not simply lock the doors on him and keep his stuff until it's
convenient for you.
Yes you can, asshole.
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hearsay,
from
evidence
given
belongings.
What about if the person isn't officially living there? Just staying for
a
time & visiting often?
Daniel -- please ignore all advice from "Richard," as he is NOT in ANY way
associated with a law form or legal organization. He is, in fact, a proven
imbecile and idiot, and any "advice" he gives you could cause you to be
arrested, suspended, or possibly deported ($1 to Beavis and Butthead).
Just ignore him or, if you feel so inclined, mock him for his obvious lack
of many things.
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Daniel wrote:
In that case, go for it.
Tell the unwanted "guest" this is his last day and he is no longer
welcome.
If he wants his personal belongings, come over and get them when I'm there
or after a certain date it all goes to goodwill or what ever.
That's right, st00pid, give him advice that can get him arrested, attacked,
or sued. Great job, nimrod.
Since he's not paying rent of any kind, he has nothing to stand on
legally.
If he's found in the house again after a certain date, he's criminally
trespassing.
Oh STFU pedo.
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In article <gYydnWwVR-rfgindRVn2uQ@giganews.com>, Daniel says...
I'm helping someone out of a bad relationship. I need to know is it illegal
for them to (or could they get into any trouble for) hack their "partner"
(trying to keep genders annonymous here) ICQ history files? There IS
software that can read those archived chat logs. I need to make sure that
by helping them they wont be in any trouble. The other person's computer is
on a home network at THEIR home & has been for some time (few months),
including the time that this messaging took place (the date they need to
read from the logs...a week or two ago). They plan to confront the other
with this chat log, combined with screenshots of their system (they were
using a remote monitoring program, used to take controll for remote
controll/admin purposes, only just not controlling the keyboard/mouse & were
instead taking screenshots...again, this person knew this program was
installed & had this ability).
Also for legal purposes, are chat logs evidence? Considering that they can
be forged (& forged & planted on someone else's computer too?) Isn't it a
matter of one person's word vs. another?
They both do live in Oklahoma.
Also, when they finally do kick out the other person, in a room-mate type of
situation, can guest have any say on getting their stuff out of owner's
home? Owner plans to offer it, but only durring their free time (not
missing any work) because they dont want any problems but wants to make sure
guest can't make a fuss about having to fit within the exact time they want
(only a small amount of clothing, shelf with TV & DVD player, & computer, so
not much stuff), different work hrs, same days off.
--
--
There are 10 types of people in this world...
...those who understand binary & those who dont.
Why bother with all the instant message logs? If someone wants out of a
relationship then get out. "Confronting" someone with the chat logs sounds like
a hare-brained scheme cooked up by a Drama Queen.
If I understand your question, the computer where the log is stored is not owned
by either you or the person you are helping. If you pull information off some
third person's computer you are probably committing a crime.
If you are actually involved in some sort of court action, you can obtain
everything you want legally through a subpoena. Unless you can identify and
locate the other parties to the chats, the logs would likely be viewed as
hearsay.
As to your other question about getting rid of an unwanted guest, you might
consider moving all their belongings into a self-storage unit. You pay the first
month's rent and give the key to the unwanted guest. Then change all the locks
on your house. This eliminates the person coming back into your home and the
problem of scheduling.
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Do you think that he got fired or he's still on the payroll and they're
just
not bothering to return his calls anymore? Personally given his
admittance
of how he was being the "tattletale" of his company and how he kept
complaining about the boss's relatives, I don't think he lasted very long
with them.
When he broke the truck, they probably sold it rather than letting Bullis
drive it. But things are looking up again for St00pid. That bus delivery job
looks promising. He's gonna use rental cars at his own expense to return
rather than taking a Greyhound back. And, he can have free time whenever he
wants!!1! More free time for Bullis *and* a cush job.
Daniel wrote:
Daniel wrote:
I'm helping someone out of a bad relationship. I need to know
is
it
illegal for them to (or could they get into any trouble for)
hack
their "partner" (trying to keep genders annonymous here) ICQ
history
<snip>
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