|
|
|
I had an experience at my local Best Buy today that I just have to
share because I am speechless at what occurred and that the staff of
the store (and managers, I'm sure) see nothing wrong with it.
I approached the cashier with my one item in hand and he began to ring
up my sale. After doing so, he said to me (a direct quote) "Sir,
because you are shopping at Best Buy today, we'd like to give you a
gift of either 8 FREE issues of Entertainment Weekly magazine or 8
FREE issues of Sports Illustrated. You get to choose."
I found this odd, very odd. But I told him Entertainment Weekly and
then he asked for my phone number. Since I have shopped Best Buy
before (I assume) my address came up on the screen of his register and
he asked me to confirm it was correct, I did. He then had me sign for
my purchase (which I put on a credit card) and he thanked me and said
my free magazine would begin shortly.
Again, I found it very odd Best Buy would be handing out 8 weeks of
magazines to everyone at their register. I was purchasing one Music CD
for $15.00 and didn't even use a Best Buy credit card.
WELL, as I walked out of the store my jaw dropped as I read what was
printed on my receipt! First, the cashier had added two items to my
purchase:
6195592 EW BROCHURE $0.00
6220902 EW TRIAL $0.00
I hadn't been handed any "brochure" nor had I agreed to a TRIAL of
anything. Under this it read on my receipt
"Yes! I want Entertainment Weekly's 8 issue trial offer with automatic
renewal. I authorize Best Buy to give my credit/debit card to EW and
EW to charge my card for the initial and six month renewal issues".
WHAT?? I NEVER was told I was purchasing ANYTHING! I never
purchased a subscription, I never was asked to. I simply accepted my
"8 free issues".
I marched back into the store and to Customer Service where I calmly
explained I had just made a purchase and what had happened. The clerk
didn't seem to see why I was upset. I explained that I was told I was
getting 8 free issues of a magazine as a GIFT and no mention was made
of any further charges at all. She replied "well, you don't get
charged until after the 8 issues" and I stopped her and said "But you
aren't telling people at the register that you are charging them
anything or passing on their credit card info to a magazine to charge
a subscription purchase!".
She rolled her eyes at me, took my receipt and said she would "return
it". She then seemed to return to two "items" above from my receipt
and said that would end it. She handed me my receipt back and a
"return receipt" which I have here.
CERTAINLY, this is fraud! It must be! Best Buy has cashiers telling
customers they are getting a "free gift" of 8 magazine issues and
isn't telling the customer ANYTHING about a renewal, a charge in the
future, etc. Nothing. Had I not glanced at my receipt I would have
had a charge from Entertainment Weekly for a magazine subscription
because Best Buy had given them my name, address and credit card
number!!
What should I do? Local store managers rarely care about complaints
like this. I plan to contact Best Buy, but this must have been
approved higher up. Should I contact the FTC also?
Has this happened to anyone else?
|
| |
| |
dziak@snet.net (Greyson) wrote in news:bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120
@posting.google.com:
I had an experience at my local Best Buy today that I just have to
share because I am speechless at what occurred and that the staff of
the store (and managers, I'm sure) see nothing wrong with it.
Neither do I.
(Magazine come on everyone is already familiar with deleted)
(OP falling for come on deleted)
WELL, as I walked out of the store my jaw dropped as I read what was
printed on my receipt! First, the cashier had added two items to my
purchase:
6195592 EW BROCHURE $0.00
6220902 EW TRIAL $0.00
So how was this 'without notice'?
"Yes! I want Entertainment Weekly's 8 issue trial offer with automatic
renewal. I authorize Best Buy to give my credit/debit card to EW and
EW to charge my card for the initial and six month renewal issues".
Again, exactly how is this without notice?
WHAT?? I NEVER was told I was purchasing ANYTHING! I never
You JUST said it was written on the receipt. You were notified, period.
of any further charges at all. She replied "well, you don't get
charged until after the 8 issues" and I stopped her and said "But you
Actually, I'm not stupid enough to fall for this, but I imagine this is not
true. Many offers of this type, the year's subscription starts when the
magazines start, not 8 issues later. The 'free' issues are merely merged
into your overpriced subscription.
CERTAINLY, this is fraud! It must be! Best Buy has cashiers telling
You being ignorant is fraud?
customers they are getting a "free gift" of 8 magazine issues and
isn't telling the customer ANYTHING about a renewal, a charge in the
Again, it was on the receipt. I think it is far past time that illiteracy
started costing people.
future, etc. Nothing. Had I not glanced at my receipt I would have
had a charge from Entertainment Weekly for a magazine subscription
because Best Buy had given them my name, address and credit card
number!!
Because you agreed to it when you signed.
What should I do? Local store managers rarely care about complaints
like this. I plan to contact Best Buy, but this must have been
approved higher up. Should I contact the FTC also?
Go for it. Do let us know how that goes.
Has this happened to anyone else?
Not the ones who can read and understand the concept of TANSTAAFL.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
|
| |
| |
CERTAINLY, this is fraud! It must be!
No, it's not fraud, it's just sleazy. Guess we hafta believe that
whatever BB gets outta this is worth pissing off their customers.
|
| |
| |
In article <Xns955ABCB883ADDstile@129.250.170.90>,
Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:
dziak@snet.net (Greyson) wrote in news:bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120
@posting.google.com:
Neither do I.
(Magazine come on everyone is already familiar with deleted)
(OP falling for come on deleted)
So how was this 'without notice'?
Again, exactly how is this without notice?
You JUST said it was written on the receipt. You were notified, period.
Yeah, *after* s/he DIDN'T AGREE TO IT.
|
| |
| |
dziak@snet.net (Greyson) wrote in news:bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120
@posting.google.com:
Neither do I.
(Magazine come on everyone is already familiar with deleted)
(OP falling for come on deleted)
So how was this 'without notice'?
A little basic contract law:
A contract requires a meeting of the minds as to terms, or it's
unenforceable. Additional terms added after the fact of offer and
acceptance are unenforceable absent acquiesence and additional
consideration.
In plain English, you can't tell a customer one thing, accept his money, and
then hand him a receipt which says something else.
I believe, as a matter of law, that this is fraud.
Again, exactly how is this without notice?
Notice after the fact is irrelevant.
You JUST said it was written on the receipt. You were notified, period.
Actually, I'm not stupid enough to fall for this, but I imagine this is
not
true. Many offers of this type, the year's subscription starts when the
magazines start, not 8 issues later. The 'free' issues are merely merged
into your overpriced subscription.
You being ignorant is fraud?
Again, it was on the receipt. I think it is far past time that illiteracy
started costing people.
Because you agreed to it when you signed.
Go for it. Do let us know how that goes.
Not the ones who can read and understand the concept of TANSTAAFL.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
|
| |
| |
tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote in news:chdknd$aek@rac1.wam.umd.edu:
Yeah, *after* s/he DIDN'T AGREE TO IT.
My apologies for believing the OP when he/she/it clearly stated that
he/she/it signed the recipt.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
|
| |
| |
In article <bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120@posting.google.com>, dziak@snet.net (Greyson) writes:
| I had an experience at my local Best Buy today that I just have to
| share because I am speechless at what occurred and that the staff of
| the store (and managers, I'm sure) see nothing wrong with it.
|
| I approached the cashier with my one item in hand and he began to ring
| up my sale. After doing so, he said to me (a direct quote) "Sir,
| because you are shopping at Best Buy today, we'd like to give you a
| gift of either 8 FREE issues of Entertainment Weekly magazine or 8
| FREE issues of Sports Illustrated. You get to choose."
[...]
| Has this happened to anyone else?
I was offered the same deal. I declined. The salesperson said that she
couldn't believe that I would pass up Sports Illustrated since the free issues
included the swimsuit edition. I suggested that as hard to believe as it
might be, I really was passing it up. She countered that I was being foolish
since this was a totally free gift and there was no reason not to accept it.
I explained that I expected the hassle of trying to cancel after the free trial
period would make for a great reason even if I wanted the magazines, which I
didn't. She replied that there was nothing to cancel since this wasn't a
subscription but a totally free gift. I explained that I'm really not a very
smart consumer and sometimes I turn down even totally free gifts, stupid as
that may be. She seemed to get the message.
At the time I was confident that the salesperson was lying. Thanks for
confirming. :)
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
|
| |
| |
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:55:27 -0700, Steve <xfr@xvzvx.com> wrote:
CERTAINLY, this is fraud! It must be!
No, it's not fraud, it's just sleazy. Guess we hafta believe that
whatever BB gets outta this is worth pissing off their customers.
As if high-pressure sales tactics to push extended service plans
weren't bad enough, it looks like Best Buy has found yet another way
to milk its customers. What's next, a robotic pickpocket that takes
money directly from your wallet while you stand in the checkout line?
The sad part is, the sheeple who shop there will continue to put up
with it.
--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.
|
| |
| |
In article <bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120@posting.google.com>,
dziak@snet.net (Greyson) writes:
(snip)
At the time I was confident that the salesperson was lying. Thanks for
confirming. :)
Does it count as lying if the salesdroid honestly didn't understand the
offer, and was just parroting the script that was force-fed to them in that
weeks 'associate training session' (or whatever the call the brainwashing
sessions there.)?
BB creeps me out bigtime. The glassy-eyed stare of the chirpy door droids,
the 16 year old 'expert' they call out of the back when I ask a technical
question, the high-pressure sales pitches, etc. Unless there is an
astounding loss leader in their flyer, or I am in desperate need (like in
the next hour) for an item, I go elsewhere, or buy online. I miss the supply
houses of my youth- big warehouse sort of building on the wrong end of town,
a counter with stools and those big catalog racks, stacks of brown cardboard
boxes, parts in OEM pack, not retail shiny boxes/blister packs/etc, and a
geek minding the store because he was actually getting paid for doing stuff
he liked.
aem sends...
aem sends....
|
| |
| |
On 5 Sep 2004 03:29:55 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
I was offered the same deal. I declined. The salesperson said that she
couldn't believe that I would pass up Sports Illustrated since the free issues
included the swimsuit edition. I suggested that as hard to believe as it
might be, I really was passing it up. She countered that I was being foolish
since this was a totally free gift and there was no reason not to accept it.
I explained that I expected the hassle of trying to cancel after the free trial
period would make for a great reason even if I wanted the magazines, which I
didn't. She replied that there was nothing to cancel since this wasn't a
subscription but a totally free gift. I explained that I'm really not a very
smart consumer and sometimes I turn down even totally free gifts, stupid as
that may be. She seemed to get the message.
At the time I was confident that the salesperson was lying. Thanks for
confirming. :)
That sounds a lot like my last Best Buy shopping experience before I
quit shopping there. In my case, the twit at the register was pushing
one of those high-profit extended service plans - and I do mean
PUSHING. This #@&@
just would not take "no" for an answer. After
three or four rounds of "but don't you want the peace of mind of
knowing that if you throw that CD player out the window you'll get a
new one for free?" I asked her "do you ever have people get pissed off
at your pushy sales tactics?" "Oh, no," she replied. Maybe she was
lying... Or maybe the only people who continue to shop at Best Buy are
the kind of sheeple who meekly put up with that kind of crap.
Clearly this pushiness is part of the standard training that Best Buy
clerks receive. And the practivce is spreading.
I was at an Albertson's grocery store the other day. Albertson's was
one of the last major grocery store chains to adopt the affinity cards
that we all know and loathe. Finally, even they succame to the
temptation and started their own affinity card program. Anyway, as I
was checking out, the cashier (an older woman whose hair was about
half grey) made some comment like "now don't forget to use your
Preferred Saver Card" which I ignored. When all the purchases were
rung up, she again asked for my card. I explained I didn't have one.
Without asking if I wanted one, she immediately pulled a set of
Preferred Saver cards and an application out and handed them to me,
saying "we'll just enter your phone number into the system and you'll
be able to use this card today." I gently explained to her that I
really wasn't interested in giving her my phone number, and she
finally let the matter drop. Clearly her bosses have instructed her to
be aggressive in getting people to sign up for these affinity cards.
Maybe she even gets a SPIFF or some other compensation for each
customer she signs up? I wonder how many sheeple will simply go along
with what this "nice old lady" wants and fill out the form, give their
phone number, and, incidentally, wind up in any number of direct
marketing databases, just because they are to polite to tell this
sweet old lady to STFU?
Bottom line, big chain stores have learned that their customers are
sheep, and are beginning to take advantage of that fact. Instead of
taking the first "no," they'll keep pushing until you say no 3 or 4
times. Circuit Shitty was a pioneer in this - one of their salespeople
once admitted to me that they had a "three no's policy" - they had to
keep pushing the extended service plan nutil the customer had said
"no" at least 3 times.
I should only have to say "no" once - if you keep pushing me and make
me repeat it again and again, I'm going to "just say no" to shopping
in your store. If everyone did this, we'd see the end of this
obnoxious practice once and for all.
--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.
|
| |
| |
That sounds a lot like my last Best Buy shopping experience before I
quit shopping there. In my case, the twit at the register was pushing
one of those high-profit extended service plans - and I do mean
PUSHING. This #@&@
just would not take "no" for an answer. After
three or four rounds of "but don't you want the peace of mind of
knowing that if you throw that CD player out the window you'll get a
new one for free?" I asked her "do you ever have people get pissed off
at your pushy sales tactics?" "Oh, no," she replied. Maybe she was
lying... Or maybe the only people who continue to shop at Best Buy are
the kind of sheeple who meekly put up with that kind of crap.
I once (long time ago) went shopping at Best Buy, mostly to get a
feel for how certain features worked and how much more they added
to the cost. I wasn't really ready to buy yet.
The salescritter was very pushy about extended service plans. But
whenever she mentioned the extended service plan, somehow I got
concerned that it might break and decided not to buy it. Repeat
this for every model VCR in the store (I told you it was a long
time ago). I got a lot of information and some demonstrations how
the features I was interested in didn't really work like they were
described. I don't think she really enjoyed spending most of the
day with me and making no sales.
I considered asking for a demonstration of her throwing the <whatever>
off the roof and getting a new one (or some similar claim of them
replacing deliberate damage under warranty), then asking for a
guarantee in writing that I could do it several times a month.
Another pushy salescritter actually agreed that I shouldn't leave without
the warranty, but that they would SUBTRACT the cost of the warranty
from the cost of the product. Unfortunately, the register wouldn't
ring up such a sale when the total came out negative ... another
no sale.
Gordon L. Burditt
|
| |
| |
"PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> writes:
In plain English, you can't tell a customer one thing, accept his money, and
then hand him a receipt which says something else.
Except that in this case, the purchase was paid for using a credit
card, not "his money," and at least technically, the credit-card
transaction was not complete until the customer signed the receipt.
Agree with those who say that this is a sleazy practice. Also agree
with those who say that it's a common scam, that the OP was given
sufficient notice to cancel the trial subscription, and that he should
get a life.
|
| |
| |
In article <Xns955AC427E9B57stile@129.250.170.92>,
Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:
tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote in news:chdknd$aek@rac1.wam.umd.edu:
My apologies for believing the OP when he/she/it clearly stated that
he/she/it signed the recipt.
Assuming the facts are as stated, BB should be apologizing for
representing a "contract" as a receipt for what he actually agreed to buy.
On a side note, your view of business ethics is a good example of why
many people see it as an oxymoron.
|
| |
| |
"Greyson" <dziak@snet.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
CERTAINLY, this is fraud! It must be!
Sneaky, perhaps. But it was disclosed on the receipt, which you tell
us you signed without reading.
You yourself said it seemed odd that they would give you 8 free
issues of a magazine when you made a small purchase. The mythical
but legally relevant "reasonable and prudent" person would have
asked "What's the catch?" or at least carefully scrutinized the
paperwork. By your own testimony, you signed a receipt (a) without
reading it, when the terms were disclosed, and (b) for something you
never received.
Most people know that "N free issues" of a magazine has some sort of
catch, usually automatic renewal unless you remember to cancel. And
_everyone_ know that there's no such thing as a free lunch.
As an aside, why on earth did Best Buy have your phone number? You
do know that you're not obligated to give it to them on cash or
credit-card purchases unless you're arranging delivery of something,
right?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"You want an intelligent conversation? Do what I do: talk to
yourself. It's the only way." -- /Torch Song Trilogy/
|
| |
| |
"ameijers" <aemeijers@worldnet.att.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
Does it count as lying if the salesdroid honestly didn't understand the
offer, and was just parroting the script that was force-fed to them in that
weeks 'associate training session' (or whatever the call the brainwashing
sessions there.)?
Yes.
The register clerk is an agent of the store. If s/he is poorly
trained, that's the store's fault.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"You want an intelligent conversation? Do what I do: talk to
yourself. It's the only way." -- /Torch Song Trilogy/
|
| |
| |
"Scott en Aztlan" <slothkills@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote in
misc.consumers:
even they succame to the temptation
Cute.
Alas, the verb is pronounced "suc-come" but spelled succumb. The
past tense is succumbed, pronounced "suc-comed".
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"You want an intelligent conversation? Do what I do: talk to
yourself. It's the only way." -- /Torch Song Trilogy/
|
| |
| |
Does it count as lying if the salesdroid honestly didn't understand the
offer, and was just parroting the script that was force-fed to them in that
weeks 'associate training session' (or whatever the call the brainwashing
sessions there.)?
Upon more thought, one two things are happening here:
1. The cashiers are getting some sort of bonus for each magazine trial
they get, so some have altered the offer themselves to say it's just
"8 free issues as a gift" and fiqure customers will read the REAL
terms later in order to get the bonus.
The fact that one cashier above was high-pressure on having a customer
take the Sports Illustrated trial makes me believe the cashiers are
getting something. No Best Buy cashier cares that much about a sale
unless they are getting a bonus.
2. Best Buy has scripted the cashiers to be sneaky like this so they,
as a company, get some soft of bonus from the magazines.
Are some here saying it is ok to tell a customer they are ONLY
receiving 8 free issues of a magazine as a gift with no mention of a
charge and printing something else on their receipt??
I can't believe for a moment that the Attorney General of any state
would think this practice was ok!
|
| |
| |
"Greyson" <dziak@snet.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
Sneaky, perhaps. But it was disclosed on the receipt, which you tell
us you signed without reading.
Best Buy doesn't let you see the receipt until you sign on the electronic
approval thing for credit card purchases It doesn't spit out a receipt
until the transaction is complete.
|
| |
| |
Does it count as lying if the salesdroid honestly didn't understand the
offer, and was just parroting the script that was force-fed to them in
that
weeks 'associate training session' (or whatever the call the
brainwashing
sessions there.)?
Upon more thought, one two things are happening here:
1. The cashiers are getting some sort of bonus for each magazine trial
they get, so some have altered the offer themselves to say it's just
"8 free issues as a gift" and fiqure customers will read the REAL
terms later in order to get the bonus.
The fact that one cashier above was high-pressure on having a customer
take the Sports Illustrated trial makes me believe the cashiers are
getting something. No Best Buy cashier cares that much about a sale
unless they are getting a bonus.
2. Best Buy has scripted the cashiers to be sneaky like this so they,
as a company, get some soft of bonus from the magazines.
Are some here saying it is ok to tell a customer they are ONLY
receiving 8 free issues of a magazine as a gift with no mention of a
charge and printing something else on their receipt??
I can't believe for a moment that the Attorney General of any state
would think this practice was ok!
They've been doing it around here for at least a year, and while I've never
gone for it (I don't believe there's ever any free lunch), I can't
understand why someone who has hasn't complained to the state or some other
consumer agency. I've often wondered if they will make the offer if you pay
cash for your purchase, because then they have no credit card to charge.
|
| |
| |
Has this happened to anyone else?
Not the ones who can read and understand the concept of TANSTAAFL.
This is an EXTREMELY common marketing ploy for magazines. You do have the
option of cancelling the subscription before your free offer runs out.
Hopefully, you will at least get the actual magazine in the mail next week,
rather than a brick duct-taped to a length of 2 by 4 :-)
*****
Tim Horrigan <horrigan@aol.com>
*****
|
| |
| |
"PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> writes:
Except that in this case, the purchase was paid for using a credit
card, not "his money," and at least technically, the credit-card
transaction was not complete until the customer signed the receipt.
Best Buy uses electronic signatures -- the customer doesn't see the receipt
until after signing.
Agree with those who say that this is a sleazy practice. Also agree
with those who say that it's a common scam, that the OP was given
sufficient notice to cancel the trial subscription, and that he should
get a life.
|
| |
| |
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:05:00 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
even they succame to the temptation
Cute.
Alas, the verb is pronounced "suc-come" but spelled succumb. The
past tense is succumbed, pronounced "suc-comed".
I apologize - I was just having a bit of pun.
--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.
|
| |
| |
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:57:26 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
"Greyson" <dziak@snet.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
Sneaky, perhaps. But it was disclosed on the receipt, which you tell
us you signed without reading.
You yourself said it seemed odd that they would give you 8 free
issues of a magazine when you made a small purchase. The mythical
but legally relevant "reasonable and prudent" person would have
asked "What's the catch?" or at least carefully scrutinized the
paperwork.
Let me guess: you believe shrink-wrap license agreements are fair and
legal, don't you?
--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.
|
| |
| |
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:48:56 +0000 (UTC), jik@kamens.brookline.ma.us
(Jonathan Kamens) wrote:
"PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> writes:
Except that in this case, the purchase was paid for using a credit
card, not "his money," and at least technically, the credit-card
transaction was not complete until the customer signed the receipt.
Agree with those who say that this is a sleazy practice. Also agree
with those who say that it's a common scam, that the OP was given
sufficient notice to cancel the trial subscription, and that he should
get a life.
But at some stores, like Best Buy, you either sign an electronic pad,
or sign a seperate receipt that just has the transaction amount and a
sig. line.
A lot of places (in my experience) don't give you an itemized receipt
until the transaction is complete.
-Martin O'B
|
| |
| |
On 4 Sep 2004 23:32:59 GMT, Howard <stile99@email.com.>
wrote:
dziak@snet.net (Greyson) wrote in news:bb4dc0dc.0409041345.178d2120
@posting.google.com:
Neither do I.
(Magazine come on everyone is already familiar with deleted)
(OP falling for come on deleted)
So how was this 'without notice'?
It is "without notice" because the offer wasn't: "How would
you like to purchase a subscription to EW? If you do, you
will get the first 8 issues free!"
Again, exactly how is this without notice?
You JUST said it was written on the receipt. You were notified, period.
Nope. See above. The "sales pitch" was for 8 free issues.
Nothing more.
Actually, I'm not stupid enough to fall for this, but I imagine this is not
true. Many offers of this type, the year's subscription starts when the
magazines start, not 8 issues later. The 'free' issues are merely merged
into your overpriced subscription.
You being ignorant is fraud?
No, the cashier's statement, versus what they got IS fraud.
Again, it was on the receipt. I think it is far past time that illiteracy
started costing people.
Nope. You aren't told you bought anything until you see the
receipt? Fraud.
Because you agreed to it when you signed. j
They agreed to the FREE offer of FREE magazines. Nothing
more.
Go for it. Do let us know how that goes.
Not the ones who can read and understand the concept of TANSTAAFL.
She wasn't given anything to read before she agreed. Only
after. And only then did she realize she had been signed
up for something that would cost her. She agreed to 8 FREE
issues. Nothing more.
She should write to her state attorney general, and the
Better Business Bureau explaining what happened, and
enclosing copies of her receipt and the Return Order.
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Someone once told me that on Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:33:16 -0500, "Karen in
MN" <ask.me.for.my.email.address> wrote:
Does it count as lying if the salesdroid honestly didn't understand the
offer, and was just parroting the script that was force-fed to them in
that
weeks 'associate training session' (or whatever the call the
brainwashing
sessions there.)?
They've been doing it around here for at least a year, and while I've never
gone for it (I don't believe there's ever any free lunch), I can't
understand why someone who has hasn't complained to the state or some other
consumer agency. I've often wondered if they will make the offer if you pay
cash for your purchase, because then they have no credit card to charge.
In the cases where I've paid cash at BB, no offer was made.
Kent
--
You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 09:54:17 -0700, Scott en Aztlan
<slothkills@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:57:26 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Let me guess: you believe shrink-wrap license agreements are fair and
legal, don't you?
Well, they're legal.
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tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote in news:chf2dd$4d9@rac1.wam.umd.edu:
In article <Xns955AC427E9B57stile@129.250.170.92>,
Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:
Assuming the facts are as stated, BB should be apologizing for
representing a "contract" as a receipt for what he actually agreed to
buy.
On a side note, your view of business ethics is a good example of why
many people see it as an oxymoron.
I'm sorry, I can't seem to find the post where I said it was ethical,
could you help me find it? All I can find are ones where I very clearly
state that it ISN'T ethical, but neither is it illegal.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
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Sneaky, perhaps. But it was disclosed on the receipt, which you tell
us you signed without reading.
(snip)
You yourself said it seemed odd that they would give you 8 free
issues of a magazine when you made a small purchase. The mythical
but legally relevant "reasonable and prudent" person would have
asked "What's the catch?" or at least carefully scrutinized the
paperwork.
1. You are incorrect. Many stores these days (Office Max also comes to
mind) have video signature pads you sign and THEN the receipt is
generated from the register and you are handed it. No receipt it
presented for signature at Best Buy BEFORE the transaction is
completed, so there is no chance to see these terms in advance.
2. It is not up to the consumer to as "what's the catch" and try and
catch fraud. It is up to the retailer to reveal the FULL terms of the
offer. Best Buy is telling customers they are receiving a FREE GIFT
and then handling them a receipt after their sign for their purchase
that says the consumer has agreed to purchase a magazine subscription
AND to have their credit card number passed onto a third party. The
customer is not being asked to agree to these terms in advance. If
it's not illegal, it's darn close.
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I had an experience at my local Best Buy today that I just have to
share because I am speechless at what occurred and that the staff of
the store (and managers, I'm sure) see nothing wrong with it.
I approached the cashier with my one item in hand and he began to ring
up my sale. After doing so, he said to me (a direct quote) "Sir,
because you are shopping at Best Buy today, we'd like to give you a
gift of either 8 FREE issues of Entertainment Weekly magazine or 8
FREE issues of Sports Illustrated. You get to choose."
I found this odd, very odd.
Geez... Not me... I find myself Accosted by these FREE* Stuff Offers
every other Ten Minutes... at Safeway... for 3 FREE* Issues of the Pueblo
Chieftain... or Denver Post... my INBOX... for 12 FREE* CDs... or 5 FREE*
DVDs... PO Box... FREE* Cutlery Set for every Order of [Omaha Steaks] sent
to Every Address... Ad Infinitum...
*ON CONDITION that you buy Extra Stuff or Afford Us The Chance to Use
Your Inattentiveness To Detail To OUR Advantage AND Sell You Extra Stuff...
But then... for Quite Some Time Now, I have RELIGIOUSLY Searched Out &
Studied, The Fine Print... Which is ALWAYS Somewhere In Close Proximity...
But I told him Entertainment Weekly and
then he asked for my phone number.
And Bells n' Whistles *didn't* Immediately Go Off??
Since I have shopped Best Buy
before (I assume) my address came up on the screen of his register and
he asked me to confirm it was correct, I did.
Orrrrr... BB's IT Guys Quickly & Easily Matched your Phone Num to an
Address... or ViceVersa... On... The InterNet...
Orrrrr... You FOOLISHLY Surrendered your Personal Info to BB... or Home
Depot... or Circuit City... your Bank... DMV...
He then had me sign for
my purchase (which I put on a credit card)
Yes... your "One Item"...
and he thanked me and said
my free magazine would begin shortly.
Your magazine(s)...
Again, I found it very odd Best Buy would be handing out 8 weeks of
magazines to everyone at their register. I was purchasing one Music CD
for $15.00 and didn't even use a Best Buy credit card.
Yyyeahh... do you Begin To See the Value in Paying Cash... and the
PITFALLS of Plastic?
WELL, as I walked out of the store my jaw dropped as I read what was
printed on my receipt! First, the cashier had added two items to my
purchase:
6195592 EW BROCHURE $0.00
6220902 EW TRIAL $0.00
MmHmm... AND Charged According to The Offer Terms...
Push comes to Shove, I'm sure it'll Be No Problem to Write a Check for
$0.00...
I hadn't been handed any "brochure" nor had I agreed to a TRIAL of
anything. Under this it read on my receipt
Yes... well... Treading in the DREADED "Grey Area of Law" now, Assuming
the Facts as you have Laid Them Out are Spectacularly Accurate, there is
not, as you Allege Infra, any manner of Criminal OR Civil Fraud Evident...
Which brings us to the Well-Known Legal concept of MISTAKE... ie, the
Low-Paid-Low IQ Clerk *Should Have* informed you that because you are a BB
Shopper, "we" would like to *Gift* you with a FREE* *trial* Subscription to
X... instead of MISTAKEnly offering you a *Gift* of "8 Free Issues..."...
My Money Bets that there's a Memo to Managers BB will Shove In The Face
of all Irate Customers that reads [approximately]: Store Managers will begin
the FREE* Magazine [Trial Sub] Offer on AUG 15, running to SEP15... please
have the Check-Out Clerks in Your Location begin Querying Customers PROMPTLY
on this date...
"Yes! I want Entertainment Weekly's 8 issue trial offer with automatic
renewal. I authorize Best Buy to give my credit/debit card to EW and
EW to charge my card for the initial and six month renewal issues".
WHAT?? I NEVER was told I was purchasing ANYTHING! I never
purchased a subscription, I never was asked to. I simply accepted my
"8 free issues".
Yes... and *this* is where the Aforementioned Concept of "MISTAKE" comes
into Play...
AND a Healthy Engagement of SKEPTICISM and Ferreting Out of the Fine
Print...
Saves One from Hurried Marches Back Into Stores...
I marched back into the store and to Customer Service where I calmly
explained I had just made a purchase and what had happened. The clerk
didn't seem to see why I was upset. I explained that I was told I was
getting 8 free issues of a magazine as a GIFT and no mention was made
of any further charges at all. She replied "well, you don't get
charged until after the 8 issues" and I stopped her and said "But you
aren't telling people at the register that you are charging them
anything or passing on their credit card info to a magazine to charge
a subscription purchase!".
MISTAKE...
She rolled her eyes at me, took my receipt and said she would "return
it". She then seemed to return to two "items" above from my receipt
and said that would end it.
MISTAKE Cured... FRAUD Disavowed... Case CLOSED...
She handed me my receipt back and a
"return receipt" which I have here.
CERTAINLY, this is fraud!
NoIt'sNot...
It must be!
ItAin't...
Best Buy has cashiers telling
customers they are getting a "free gift" of 8 magazine issues and
isn't telling the customer ANYTHING about a renewal, a charge in the
future, etc. Nothing.
MISTAKE... CURABLE MISTAKE... MISTAKE CURED...
Had I not glanced at my receipt I would have
had a charge from Entertainment Weekly for a magazine subscription
because Best Buy had given them my name, address and credit card
number!!
Which makes me - and would Cause ANY Finder Of Fact - wonder: "WHY were
you ""glancing"" at your Receipt... IMMEDIATELY upon your Egress of The
Store... BEFORE leaving The Parking Lot... just WHAT was Your State of Mind
WRT this Transaction?" Etc...
What should I do?
1. Return Yourself to a "Cash Economy"
2. ALWAYS REFUSE All Solicitations for Any & All Personal Info
3. Take a Chill Pill
4. Buy a Large Bottle of Healthy Skepticism Pills
Local store managers rarely care about complaints
like this.
ByGod, y'got That Right!
"District" Managers... and Home Offices *Generally* care more about
[WRITTEN] Customer Complaints... especially when there is a
VeiledButPLAUSIBLE Threat of Taking your $$$ to The Specifically Named
Competition...
I plan to contact Best Buy, but this must have been
approved higher up. Should I contact the FTC also?
Ummmm... find those Chill Pills First...
Has this happened to anyone else?
Uh... no... Surely YOU are The First Case EVER...
Naughtius "But Then, I Ain't No Neophyte Consumer" Maximus"
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