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"S. O. Damocles" wrote:
[Bollocks! As usual.]
This is a JOKE! CBS and Dan Rather are pushing a losing hand where they're
not even holding a pair of deuces. It has ALREADY blown up in their faces,
and they don't yet realise it.
There are so many problems with those fraudulent memos that the duplicity of
Dan Rather and of CBS News are as glaring as the noonday sun in the summer
sky.
The latest news is that Staudt, the Colonel who was supposedly pushing this
thing had RETIRED from the Texas Guard a full year and a half before
"Killian" refers to him in the fake memo.
The game is over, everyone who cares to admit it (and even those who don't)
can see right through the ruse. Give it up, and save whatever little face
you can.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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"S. O. Damocles" wrote:
Harry Hope wrote:
In the final Killian memo, the one with the subject line "CYA" (cover your
ass), the commander makes cryptic references to a struggle with his
superiors over how much slack to cut Bush, who hadn't been observed in
Texas for a year.
"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having
trouble running interference and doing my job," Killian writes.
According to the Associated Press, Staudt and Hodges are Waleter B.
Staudt, the commander of the Texas National Guard at the time, and
Lieutenant Cololnel Bobby Hodges, one of Bush's superiors.
Staudt, Killian wrote, was "pushing to sugar coat" the evaluation.
Problem is, Staudt had left the Texas Guard on March 1, 1972, and "Killian"
refers to him in a fake memo dated Aug. 18, 1973. It is LUDICROUS to assert
that Staudt was still exerting pressure a year and a half after he had left
the guard -- BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PRESSURE TO EXERT! For more, see:
<http://tinyurl.com/4cskk>
Give it up, losers, this one's done, and you have egg all over your face.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:08:31 -0700, "Theodore A. Kaldis"
<kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"S. O. Damocles" wrote:
This is a JOKE! CBS and Dan Rather are pushing a losing hand where they're
not even holding a pair of deuces. It has ALREADY blown up in their faces,
and they don't yet realise it.
There are so many problems with those fraudulent memos that the duplicity of
Dan Rather and of CBS News are as glaring as the noonday sun in the summer
sky.
The latest news is that Staudt, the Colonel who was supposedly pushing this
thing had RETIRED from the Texas Guard a full year and a half before
"Killian" refers to him in the fake memo.
The game is over, everyone who cares to admit it (and even those who don't)
can see right through the ruse. Give it up, and save whatever little face
you can.
And now this: CBS and many Democrats have been ballyhooing retired
Maj. General Hodges as their confirmation of the whole story.
Oops!
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/NotedNow/Noted_Now.html
What is going on at CBS? This is turning into Jonestown.
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In article <pk76k0tie6e8dti43l2hi523vl6disp7q5@4ax.com>,
Mitch Farmer <mitch@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:08:31 -0700, "Theodore A. Kaldis"
<kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
And now this: CBS and many Democrats have been ballyhooing retired
Maj. General Hodges as their confirmation of the whole story.
Oops!
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/NotedNow/Noted_Now.html
What is going on at CBS? This is turning into Jonestown.
And a great distraction from the fact that Bush jumped the line to
get into the National Guard, took his flight training at great cost
to the taxpayers, and then refused his required flight physical (at
a time when drug testing had just been instituted) and weaseled out
of fulfilling *his committment* to a country at war. At war which he
was all for, by the way -- as long as it was someone else putting their
life on the line.
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tjab wrote:
Mitch Farmer wrote:
And a great distraction from the fact that Bush jumped the line to get into
the National Guard, took his flight training at great cost to the
taxpayers, and then refused his required flight physical (at a time when
drug testing had just been instituted) and weaseled out of fulfilling *his
committment* to a country at war. At war which he was all for, by the way
-- as long as it was someone else putting their life on the line.
More lies! How can we now believe anything more you have to say? You lot
(pushing the National Guard story) have already proven yourselves to be
frauds.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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In article <41433E45.3F43DACD@worldnet.att.net>,
Theodore A. Kaldis <kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
tjab wrote:
More lies! How can we now believe anything more you have to say? You lot
(pushing the National Guard story) have already proven yourselves to be
frauds.
Which part is a lie, Ted? Do you think anyone else but the taxpayers
paid for the flight training that he walked away from?
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tjab wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Which part is a lie, Ted?
Probably all of it.
Do you think anyone else but the taxpayers paid for the flight training
This is THIN. Who else but the taxpayers pay for the flight training of ANY
military pilot? And this is the BEST you have???
that he walked away from?
Got any documentation -- RELIABLE documentation -- for that charge? Of
course not. Because it almost certainly DID NOT HAPPEN. See:
<http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx>
Liar.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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In article <pk76k0tie6e8dti43l2hi523vl6disp7q5@4ax.com>,
Mitch Farmer <mitch@nospam.com> wrote:
And a great distraction from the fact that Bush jumped the line to
get into the National Guard,
No he did not.
took his flight training at great cost
to the taxpayers,
And became an excellent pilot of the jet he was trained in.
and then refused his required flight physical (at
a time when drug testing had just been instituted)
Drug testing of all military members did not begin widespread use until the
80's after an EA6B crashed onto a carrier, and the pilots were determined to
have drugs in their blood. This also bought to light the fact that in
operational squadrons, both Navy and AirForce, pilots were prescribed drugs
to keep them alert and awake during high tempo operations.
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tjab wrote:
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No he did not.
And became an excellent pilot of the jet he was trained in.
Drug testing of all military members did not begin widespread use until
the
80's after an EA6B crashed onto a carrier, and the pilots were determined
to
have drugs in their blood. This also bought to light the fact that in
operational squadrons, both Navy and AirForce, pilots were prescribed
drugs
to keep them alert and awake during high tempo operations.
--
*******************************************
If you want inconsistancies,
forged documents,
empty promises,
loud oratory,
subservience to the UN,
cops instead of the Army
chasing Al Qaeda then:
Vote Democrat.
If you like consistency and someone
who puts country first over politics,
Vote Republican.
jt
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In article <414356F2.980E6F0A@worldnet.att.net>,
Theodore A. Kaldis <kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
tjab wrote:
Probably all of it.
This is THIN. Who else but the taxpayers pay for the flight training of ANY
military pilot? And this is the BEST you have???
Got any documentation -- RELIABLE documentation -- for that charge? Of
course not. Because it almost certainly DID NOT HAPPEN. See:
<http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx>
The first paragraph of the article says:
"What do you really know about George W. Bush' time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn't show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a [requird flight]
physical [without which any pilot would be grounded]? That his daddy got him
in?" [Bracketed comments mine.]
Show me where the article rebuts one word of this.
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In article <c110ef288e6453ab0f543a8045ed8009@news.meganetnews.com>,
Dana <dems@losers.com> wrote:
No he did not.
And became an excellent pilot of the jet he was trained in.
Drug testing of all military members did not begin widespread use until the
80's after an EA6B crashed onto a carrier, and the pilots were determined to
have drugs in their blood. This also bought to light the fact that in
operational squadrons, both Navy and AirForce, pilots were prescribed drugs
to keep them alert and awake during high tempo operations.
And never flew again.
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In article <pk76k0tie6e8dti43l2hi523vl6disp7q5@4ax.com>,
Mitch Farmer <mitch@nospam.com> wrote:
And a great distraction from the fact that Bush jumped the line to
get into the National Guard, took his flight training at great cost
to the taxpayers, and then refused his required flight physical (at
a time when drug testing had just been instituted) and weaseled out
of fulfilling *his committment* to a country at war. At war which he
was all for, by the way -- as long as it was someone else putting their
life on the line.
There was no line to spend two years on active duty to learn how to fly an
F-102.
David
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"S. O. Damocles" wrote:
In the final Killian memo, the one with the subject line "CYA" (cover
your
ass), the commander makes cryptic references to a struggle with his
superiors over how much slack to cut Bush, who hadn't been observed in
Texas for a year.
"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having
trouble running interference and doing my job," Killian writes.
According to the Associated Press, Staudt and Hodges are Waleter B.
Staudt, the commander of the Texas National Guard at the time, and
Lieutenant Cololnel Bobby Hodges, one of Bush's superiors.
Staudt, Killian wrote, was "pushing to sugar coat" the evaluation.
Problem is, Staudt had left the Texas Guard on March 1, 1972, and
"Killian"
refers to him in a fake memo dated Aug. 18, 1973. It is LUDICROUS to
assert
that Staudt was still exerting pressure a year and a half after he had
left
the guard -- BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PRESSURE TO EXERT! For more, see:
Heh. So, George W Bush, since he is no longer part of the National Guard,
can't influence people there? If you want to claim that his status as CiC
gives him direct influence, than what about his *father*? Are you saying
that the former CiC couldn't apply pressure on someone in the Guard, even
today, even if his son wasn't President at this time?
You don't know what kind of unofficial relationship existed between Staudt
and Killian in 1973, so you don't know what kind of unofficial pressure
could be exerted. Perhaps it was nothing more than being an errand boy for
someone who COULD exert pressure.
Former military members who become lobbiests aren't paid big bucks because
they can exert formal pressure on their former colleagues but because they
know which former colleagues to talk to in the first place and have informal
access to them as well due to their former formal relationship.
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[...]
Drug testing of all military members did not begin widespread use until
the
80's after an EA6B crashed onto a carrier, and the pilots were determined
to
have drugs in their blood. This also bought to light the fact that in
operational squadrons, both Navy and AirForce, pilots were prescribed
drugs
to keep them alert and awake during high tempo operations.
Had my first urinalysis test in the USAF in late-1978/early 1979, IIRC. Was
winter of my first year in the UK (1978-1983). Was mandatory for all
enlisted on the base. Don't know that AF/Guard pilots were getting physicals
Stateside that involved drug-testing 5-6 years earlier, but it is
conceivable. I know that I could smell pot in the Security Police barracks
the first time I visited it, and people were still being busted in the UK
for on-base *use* of pot in the early 80's, but it's possible that stateside
anti-drug procedures, at least for pilots, started years earlier. There was
certainly a lot of briefings stateside during basic training against
drug-use, mid-1978.
Traced the claim about drug-testing and Bush to a reference to a newspaper
article that claimed that the reporter had seen documents of a stateside
drug-testing for pilots in the military that started about the time that
Bush missed his physical. I don't know that the reporter ever mentioned
which documents he saw. Without seeing that document that the reporter
mentioned, we don't know anything.
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tjab wrote:
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In article <c110ef288e6453ab0f543a8045ed8009@news.meganetnews.com>,
Dana <dems@losers.com> wrote:
And never flew again.
Wrong again, it is still practiced today. Not enough pilots for all the
missions, hence the use of uppers to keep them awake.
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On 11 Sep 2004 13:38:59 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:
In article <pk76k0tie6e8dti43l2hi523vl6disp7q5@4ax.com>,
Mitch Farmer <mitch@nospam.com> wrote:
And a great distraction from the fact that Bush jumped the line to
get into the National Guard,
another subject.
took his flight training at great cost
to the taxpayers, and then refused his required flight physical (at
a time when drug testing had just been instituted) and weaseled out
of fulfilling *his committment* to a country at war.
another subject.
At war which he
was all for, by the way -- as long as it was someone else putting their
life on the line.
another subject.
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On 11 Sep 2004 14:08:40 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:
In article <41433E45.3F43DACD@worldnet.att.net>,
Theodore A. Kaldis <kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Which part is a lie, Ted? Do you think anyone else but the taxpayers
paid for the flight training that he walked away from?
Oh please, look at all the hours he logged. This story is about CBS
and possibly more.
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[...]
the
to
drugs
Had my first urinalysis test in the USAF in late-1978/early 1979, IIRC.
Was
winter of my first year in the UK (1978-1983). Was mandatory for all
enlisted on the base. Don't know that AF/Guard pilots were getting
physicals
Stateside that involved drug-testing 5-6 years earlier, but it is
conceivable. I know that I could smell pot in the Security Police barracks
the first time I visited it, and people were still being busted in the UK
for on-base *use* of pot in the early 80's, but it's possible that
stateside
anti-drug procedures, at least for pilots, started years earlier.
I can agree with the fact that there was pot smoking going on quite a bit
until the yearly piss tests started. This also started the quaterly random
drug testing that was also implemented at this time. The numbers of people
busted for failing the drug test declined during the late 80's, and than in
the 90's it was only a trickle that was still dumb enough to try to smoke
pot or take cocaine without eventually getting busted.
I would also agree that drug tests for pilots and flight crew enlisted
people were more frequent than for other officers
and enlisted people.
But it was the early 80's where the military started to really test for drug
use. I remember the times when people would have pee from someone else
inside their shirts that they would then release into the sample bottle.
Seems the military caught on, and we were required to remove our shirts, and
were frisked prior to taking the test.
There was
certainly a lot of briefings stateside during basic training against
drug-use, mid-1978.
I had the briefs in boot camp in 1980, but besides my entry physical I was
not tested for drugs again until 1983. And the old timers at that time
really talked up a #@&@
about those tests.
I was in Japan at that time and the drinks out at the bars in the ville had
opiate in them that we had a lot of false positives.
Traced the claim about drug-testing and Bush to a reference to a newspaper
article that claimed that the reporter had seen documents of a stateside
drug-testing for pilots in the military that started about the time that
Bush missed his physical. I don't know that the reporter ever mentioned
which documents he saw. Without seeing that document that the reporter
mentioned, we don't know anything.
True enough, but it is more than likely true that pilots were checked at
least during their yearly physical. But at this time the F-102 was being
phased out and Bush did not have an interest in going into another type of
jet, so he may as well decided to let his pilot status slip by not doing the
physical.
The fact that he was not charged with anything at this time, seems the ANG
was ok with his decision to not go into another jet.
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On 11 Sep 2004 14:08:40 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:
Oh please, look at all the hours he logged. This story is about CBS
and possibly more.
Possibly about CBS being stupid, and someone who wanted CBS to look stupid
suceeding, if the forgery is as obvious as many people are claiming
(assuming it IS a forgery, of course).
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"LawsonE" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
[...]
I believe he said he did it as Speaker of the House in Texas, not Lt
Governor, but I may be mistaken.
You are.
Yep, but his original claim from 5 years ago, made through his lawyer after
a formal deposition concerning his practice of giving political favors via
National Guard service, was that he did it for GW Bush while he was Speaker
of the House. He originally said he did it while speaker of the house during
a formal testimony, and a few months ago said while "lt governor". He may
have done throughout that period while in both positions:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/shared/news/politics/stories/09/12guard.html
[...]
'As Texas House speaker, after a request from a Bush family friend, he made
a call to a military official who came through with a slot for young George
W. Bush.
In 1999, Barnes answered questions about it during a deposition in a lawsuit
filed by a fired Texas Lottery Commission executive director. After the
deposition, a statement issued by Barnes' lawyer said Barnes had been
"contacted by Sid Adger and asked to recommend George W. Bush for a pilot
position with the Air National Guard."'
[...]
'"Later that day, he called back and said he made the comments in a public
arena and stood by what he said.
What he said at the May 27 rally was this:
"I got a young man named George W. Bush in the National Guard when I was
lieutenant governor of Texas and I'm not necessarily proud of that. But I
did it."
Barnes misspoke about the job he held at the time. He was House speaker in
1968, running for lieutenant governor.
"And I got a lot of other people in the National Guard because I thought
that was what people should do when you're in office you helped a lot of
rich people," he said."'
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LawsonE wrote:
Heh. So, George W Bush, since he is no longer part of the National Guard,
can't influence people there? If you want to claim that his status as CiC
gives him direct influence, than what about his *father*? Are you saying
that the former CiC couldn't apply pressure on someone in the Guard, even
today, even if his son wasn't President at this time?
You don't know what kind of unofficial relationship existed between Staudt
and Killian in 1973, so you don't know what kind of unofficial pressure
could be exerted. Perhaps it was nothing more than being an errand boy for
someone who COULD exert pressure.
Former military members who become lobbiests aren't paid big bucks because
they can exert formal pressure on their former colleagues but because they
know which former colleagues to talk to in the first place and have
informal access to them as well due to their former formal relationship.
Heh heh heh! I guess you guys haven't eaten enough sh*t on this one, so here
you are, back for more. Eat up, because no one who is fair minded believes
you about this any more.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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tjab wrote:
<http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx>
The first paragraph of the article says:
"What do you really know about George W. Bush's time in the Air National
Guard? That he didn't show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a
[requird flight] physical [without which any pilot would be grounded]?
That his daddy got him in?" [Bracketed comments mine.]
Show me where the article rebuts one word of this.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO, YOU BLOODY DRONGO! The burden is upon those who are
making the charge to demonstrate that it is so. And so far they haven't.
Because they can't. Because it NEVER HAPPENED!
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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LawsonE wrote:
Heh heh heh! I guess you guys haven't eaten enough sh*t on this one, so
here
you are, back for more. Eat up, because no one who is fair minded
believes
you about this any more.
Do you REALLY believe that the son and grandson of former US MoCs wouldn't
have gotten special treatment in any branch of the US military?
It didn't even need to be that formal. People are generally willing to go
out of their way to do a favor for highly influential friends and let them
know about it after-the-fact on the assumption that they will get brownie
points, even if the favor was unasked for.
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LawsonE wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
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LawsonE wrote:
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LawsonE wrote:
Mitch Farmer wrote:
Possibly about CBS being stupid, and someone who wanted CBS to look stupid
suceeding, if the forgery is as obvious as many people are claiming
(assuming it IS a forgery, of course).
It _IS_ a forgery -- and an OBVIOUS one at that. I have worked in the
graphic arts industry, and I know how much equipment that was capable of
producing such documents in 1972 would have cost. There is NO QUESTION that
these documents are forgeries.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net
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Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
tjab wrote:
<http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx>
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO, YOU BLOODY DRONGO! The burden is upon
those who are making the charge to demonstrate that it is
so. And so far they haven't. Because they can't. Because
it NEVER HAPPENED!
So tell us again about your pathetic grotesque "god" and
your perverse "holey babble" ---
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Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
LawsonE wrote:
Heh heh heh! I guess you guys haven't eaten enough sh*t on
this one, so here you are, back for more. Eat up, because
no one who is fair minded believes you about this any more.
Here Teddy, from your own perverse Holey Babble ---
2 Kings, 18:27:
Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may
eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?
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