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ttp://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17723&area=womensenews
Ordeal Bryant's accuser suffered sows doubt about any rape victim's chances
in U.S. courts
As the Kobe Bryant I-didn't-think-it-was-a-rape-but-she-did case stayed in
the news over the past year, my heart went out to the 19-year-old at the
center of the storm.
The circumstances resonated with me -- she was young, she flirted with a
superstar, she ended up in his room -- and he got his way.
It almost happened to me. As a young reporter in upstate New York, I covered
the speech a nationally-syndicated columnist gave to the local Kiwanis club.
He was not of Kobe-Bryant fame, but he was well known enough. After his
lecture, I had questions; he suggested that since he had been traveling and
was exhausted, why didn't I come up to his room? He'd be happy to answer all
my questions there. I went.
He had something in mind besides talk. No sooner had the door closed than he
was all over me, assuming I was there to have sex with a semi-celebrity. It
must have happened before. Call me stupid, but I was stunned. He got mad
when I said no, but I did get out of there without being assaulted.
Fast Forward
Fast forward a decade later. I'm older and supposedly wiser when someone I'd
just broken up with is banging on my apartment door in Manhattan. It's 1
a.m. I don't want him to wake the neighbors; so I let him in.
This time, I am not so lucky. He rapes me.
Did I call the police?
No.
I didn't even tell anyone for years, I was so embarrassed.
Years later the words of feminist legal scholar Catharine MacKinnon would
strike home: "Ask a woman if she has ever been raped, and often she says,
'Well . . . not really. In that silence between the 'well' and the 'not
really,' she has just measured what happened to her against every rape case
she ever heard about and decided she would lose in court."
The woman who accused Bryant of raping her doesn't have to wonder, for in
his well-crafted apology the basketball star finally admitted that "she did
not and does not view this incident the same way I did . . . I now
understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."
This came after she had decided that she had already lost in the court of
public opinion, and said she would not testify about what happened on June
30, 2003 in that hotel room in Colorado. The prosecution dropped the case.
Death Threats, Damaging Lies
But look what got her to that point. She'd received several death threats --
one nut even volunteered to kill her for a million dollars; he's in jail in
California. Another who threatened her is behind bars in South Dakota. From
the loose lips of the unethical defense attorney -- yes, a woman -- Pamela
Mackey, the public heard all kinds of damaging lies and misrepresentations
about her: that she had sex with three different men in three days; that she
was unstable; that she was trying to get the attention of a former
boyfriend; and that she was a racist to boot.
The judge's office was no better. Judge Terry Ruckriegle joked around in
court so much that the woman's father felt compelled to write and ask him to
stop. Then the judge's clerk not once, not twice, but three times
"accidentally" e-mailed testimony from closed hearings to the press.
A supermarket tabloid, the Globe, plastered a picture of her, as well as her
name, on its front page. The picture shows a lot less skin than a swim suit
model for, say, Saks Fifth Avenue, but in this context, she looks . . .
sexy! Like a seductress! Without the backdrop of the case, we would only see
that she is blonde and cute, just the kind of young woman who gets hit upon
again and again.
The media circus surrounding the trial in Eagle, Colo., began to seem like
that of a Southern lynching trial.
Bad Press Worked
The bad press worked. Women's organizations were essentially silent. Bring
this up with a group of people, women included, you're likely to hear, "She
went to his room voluntarily, she kissed him, what did she expect?"
Not to be raped, I expect.
The public heard little about the fine print of the case, i.e., that his
first concern to the police was about his loss of endorsement dollars. That
her blood was found on the T-shirt. That the woman had two one-centimeter
lacerations in her vagina, as well as numerous pin-point ones.
Even in rape, vaginal tears are extremely rare, and are the result of a
forceful and fast penetration, because the body does not have time to
respond with lubricating fluid. The three or four sperm cells from another
man found on her panties did not have the biological markers to indicate
they were recent. She did, however, admit to consensual sex two days
earlier.
More criticism from talking heads on television was heaped on her because
she filed a civil suit before the criminal case was dropped. While strictly
speaking filing at this point didn't affect her legal standing, it did make
it seem as if "she was only in it for the money." While she would have sent
Bryant to jail with a guilty verdict in criminal court, she wouldn't have
gotten a financial settlement in that venue.
She's also been the subject of scorn because she filed the suit as "Jane
Doe," rather than use her name, despite that it's already been bandied about
on talk radio and in the tabloids, and can be found on the web by anyone
with minimal research skills. Her attorney, Lin Wood, says that while she is
aware she would gain credibility if she revealed her identity, and she may
eventually do so, "the tenor of the public debate still indicates that there
are still real concerns for her safety." With two guys in jail, and Kobe
signing a contract with the Lakers for $19.5 million a year, who wouldn't
be?
Sure, it would have looked better if she had waited until the criminal case
was over, but in the end in the end, what's the difference? She had been
tirelessly mocked by the defense, the media and the masses, and she could
only look forward to months more of the same.
No Room to Accuse
It boils down to this: Either she, and thus you and me, are entitled to a
free and constitutionally protected sex life, or we are not. What this case
is telling us all in bold face is that if we dare to have a sex life, we are
then not allowed to accuse a deep-pocketed celebrity of rape. If we are
going to say we were raped, we had better be virginal, or pretty close. The
rape-shield laws that were designed to protect women from public humiliation
simply don't work in a vast number of cases.
Remember Patricia Bowman? In 1991, she was likewise hanged in the media
after accusing William Kennedy Smith of rape. With attack-dog attorney Roy
Black, now turned nasty TV legal analyst, Kennedy Smith was acquitted.
Kennedy Smith was back in the news recently. A former employee has come
forward and accused him of raping her, and two earlier complaints of
"unwanted sexual advances" filed with the EEOC were "settled amicably," says
he.
What is disheartening about all this is that it means that nearly nothing
has changed if a woman accuses an acquaintance -- especially a celebrity
she's just met -- of rape. Yes, sometimes in acquaintance assault, the
rapist is prosecuted. But by and large when it's not a
jump-out-of-the-bushes rape, when the woman has accepted a ride home, or
gone to the guy's room, or been otherwis
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"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:cis3c2$b5k@dispatch.concentric.net...
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17723&area=womensenews
Ordeal Bryant's accuser suffered sows doubt about any rape victim's chances
in U.S. courts
As the Kobe Bryant I-didn't-think-it-was-a-rape-but-she-did case stayed in
the news over the past year, my heart went out to the 19-year-old at the
center of the storm.
"Sisterhood", and all that.
The circumstances resonated with me -- she was young, she flirted with a
superstar, she ended up in his room -- and he got his way.
Young and innocent. I believe. With a tattoo on her a$$ and
two of her boyfriend's dna in her underwear.
"Ended up in his room"?
Do these "feminist" types EVER take responsibility
for their own actions?
"... he got his way"?
That only works if you think Katelyn wasn't looking
for sex.
It almost happened to me. As a young reporter in upstate New York, I covered
the speech a nationally-syndicated columnist gave to the local Kiwanis club.
He was not of Kobe-Bryant fame, but he was well known enough. After his
lecture, I had questions; he suggested that since he had been traveling and
was exhausted, why didn't I come up to his room? He'd be happy to answer all
my questions there. I went.
DUMMY!!
He had something in mind besides talk. No sooner had the door closed than he
was all over me, assuming I was there to have sex with a semi-celebrity. It
must have happened before. Call me stupid, but I was stunned. He got mad
when I said no, but I did get out of there without being assaulted.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me... eh... You can't get fooled again." -- Dubya
And the beat goes on...
Alex
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"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cis3c2$b5k@dispatch.concentric.net>...
Hey Kobe:
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/rememberthetitans/nanaheyheykisshimgoodbye.htm
Artist: Steam Lyrics
Song: Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye Lyrics
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
He'll never love you, the way that I love you
'Cause if he did, no no, he wouldn't make you cry
He might be thrillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So dog-gone willin'
So kiss him (I wanna see you kiss him. Wanna see you kiss him)
Go on and kiss him goodbye, now
Na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Listen to me now
He's never near you to comfort and cheer you
When all those sad tears are fallin' baby from your eyes
He might be thrillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So dog-gone willin'
So kiss him (I wanna see you kiss him. I wanna see you kiss him)
Go on and kiss him goodbye, na-na na-na-na na na
Na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
[fade in]
Hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
[repeat many times and fade out]
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s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cis3c2$b5k@dispatch.concentric.net>...
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17723&area=womensenews
Ordeal Bryant's accuser suffered sows doubt about any rape victim's chances
in U.S. courts
Kobe doesn't own US women and apology. The US legal system owes
everyone one and a change in the legal system.
If there was any fairness in our legal system Bryant's name would have
never been allowed out in the first place. If he had remained only
"the accused" NONE of this would have been spread throughout the news
and no one but those involved would have known about it. The only way
any alleged victim and accused can have a fair chance in court is to
keep the records sealed until after the proceedings.
As the Kobe Bryant I-didn't-think-it-was-a-rape-but-she-did case stayed in
the news over the past year, my heart went out to the 19-year-old at the
center of the storm.
The circumstances resonated with me -- she was young, she flirted with a
superstar, she ended up in his room -- and he got his way.
It almost happened to me. As a young reporter in upstate New York, I covered
the speech a nationally-syndicated columnist gave to the local Kiwanis club.
He was not of Kobe-Bryant fame, but he was well known enough. After his
lecture, I had questions; he suggested that since he had been traveling and
was exhausted, why didn't I come up to his room? He'd be happy to answer all
my questions there. I went.
He had something in mind besides talk. No sooner had the door closed than he
was all over me, assuming I was there to have sex with a semi-celebrity. It
must have happened before. Call me stupid, but I was stunned. He got mad
when I said no, but I did get out of there without being assaulted.
Fast Forward
Fast forward a decade later. I'm older and supposedly wiser when someone I'd
just broken up with is banging on my apartment door in Manhattan. It's 1
a.m. I don't want him to wake the neighbors; so I let him in.
This time, I am not so lucky. He rapes me.
Did I call the police?
No.
I didn't even tell anyone for years, I was so embarrassed.
Years later the words of feminist legal scholar Catharine MacKinnon would
strike home: "Ask a woman if she has ever been raped, and often she says,
'Well . . . not really. In that silence between the 'well' and the 'not
really,' she has just measured what happened to her against every rape case
she ever heard about and decided she would lose in court."
I'm a woman, 34, and have never even come close to beign raped. I
have never gone to a strangers (man or womans) hotel room alone. I
have never opened any door to a man banging it down at 1.00am (and
I've been there). I have never put myself in a stupid dangerous
situation. And, when it looked like a stupid dangerous situation
might happen I removed myself.
The two women I know that have been raped it was by strangers who beat
them, one was held at gun point. They both were mostly really pissed
off and went to court, both men were sent to jail. Those women's
lives weren't ruined by it, they aren't acting the victims.
The woman who accused Bryant of raping her doesn't have to wonder, for in
his well-crafted apology the basketball star finally admitted that "she did
not and does not view this incident the same way I did . . . I now
understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."
Just because he now claims empathy that doesn't mean he's admitting to
rape. Most people observe things and interpret things differently.
They obviously had to explain to him why she feels the way she does.
That's what he understands not that he feels the same way.
This came after she had decided that she had already lost in the court of
public opinion, and said she would not testify about what happened on June
30, 2003 in that hotel room in Colorado. The prosecution dropped the case.
Death Threats, Damaging Lies
But look what got her to that point. She'd received several death threats --
one nut even volunteered to kill her for a million dollars; he's in jail in
California. Another who threatened her is behind bars in South Dakota. From
the loose lips of the unethical defense attorney -- yes, a woman -- Pamela
Mackey, the public heard all kinds of damaging lies and misrepresentations
about her: that she had sex with three different men in three days; that she
was unstable; that she was trying to get the attention of a former
boyfriend; and that she was a racist to boot.
The judge's office was no better. Judge Terry Ruckriegle joked around in
court so much that the woman's father felt compelled to write and ask him to
stop. Then the judge's clerk not once, not twice, but three times
"accidentally" e-mailed testimony from closed hearings to the press.
A supermarket tabloid, the Globe, plastered a picture of her, as well as her
name, on its front page. The picture shows a lot less skin than a swim suit
model for, say, Saks Fifth Avenue, but in this context, she looks . . .
sexy! Like a seductress! Without the backdrop of the case, we would only see
that she is blonde and cute, just the kind of young woman who gets hit upon
again and again.
The media circus surrounding the trial in Eagle, Colo., began to seem like
that of a Southern lynching trial.
Bad Press Worked
The bad press worked. Women's organizations were essentially silent. Bring
this up with a group of people, women included, you're likely to hear, "She
went to his room voluntarily, she kissed him, what did she expect?"
Not to be raped, I expect.
The public heard little about the fine print of the case, i.e., that his
first concern to the police was about his loss of endorsement dollars. That
her blood was found on the T-shirt. That the woman had two one-centimeter
lacerations in her vagina, as well as numerous pin-point ones.
Even in rape, vaginal tears are extremely rare, and are the result of a
forceful and fast penetration, because the body does not have time to
respond with lubricating fluid. The three or four sperm cells from another
man found on her panties did not have the biological markers to indicate
they were recent. She did, however, admit to consensual sex two days
earlier.
More criticism from talking heads on television was heaped on her because
she filed a civil suit before the criminal case was dropped. While strictly
speaking filing at this point didn't affect her legal standing, it did make
it seem as if "she was only in it for the money." While she would have sent
Bryant to jail with a guilty verdict in criminal court, she wouldn't have
gotten a financial settlement in that venue.
She's also been the subject of scorn because she filed the suit as "Jane
Doe," rather than use her name, despite that it's already been bandied about
on talk radio and in the tabloids, and can be found on the web by anyone
with minimal research skills. Her attorney, Lin Wood, says that while she is
aware she would gain credibility if she revealed her identity, and she may
eventually do so, "the tenor of the public debate still indicates that there
are still real
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On 22 Sep 2004 10:48:34 EDT, "s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17723&area=womensenews
Ordeal Bryant's accuser suffered sows doubt about any rape victim's chances
in U.S. courts
Chances for lying accusers, like Faber, not real rape victims.
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On 22 Sep 2004 15:26:37 -0700, nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cis3c2$b5k@dispatch.concentric.net>...
Hey Kobe:
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/rememberthetitans/nanaheyheykisshimgoodbye.htm
Artist: Steam Lyrics
Song: Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye Lyrics
That fits for your hero the skank and her chances in ever wining
anything, douche bag.
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Alex wrote:
Do these "feminist" types EVER take responsibility
for their own actions?
*Who* is responsible for rape again? The victim, or the perpetrator?
Right...
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Alex wrote:
*Who* is responsible for rape again? The victim, or the perpetrator?
What rape? You want men to be responsible for rape that never happened?
Or just for the ones that happened, but someone else committed?
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Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<6064l0pnekiv21vcg9l10o9pf6vbgqnbq2@4ax.com>...
That fits for your hero the skank and her chances in ever wining
anything, douche bag.
What's wrong, sporty-boy? Your inflatable doll having headaches again?
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"Nicole" <here@noneofyourbusiness.com> schreef in bericht
news:1095912582.pzBzAUoUX141do/6zEBFBg@teranews...
Alex wrote:
*Who* is responsible for rape again? The victim, or the perpetrator?
Right...
Another dogmatic answer.
How about taking responsibility for "finding yourself"
in some guy's bedroom?
Alex
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"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFE@wanadoo.nl> wrote
How about taking responsibility for "finding yourself"
in some guy's bedroom?
Yeah; everybody knows that men can't/won't control themselves if they have a
chance to rape.......
Alex; nothing gives you permission/consent except permission/consent- it's
not implicative or open to assumption.
Going to your room is not permission to have sex; showing you her ass tattoo
is not permission for sex; kissing you until you get horny is not permission
for sex (they're a pretty good start, but not yet consent).
You don't need to trick someone into sex- it's as available as anytime in
the history of mankind (except the '70's), so just hang out till you find
someone who actually wants to do it with you- there'll be little to mistake.
Chas
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"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFE@wanadoo.nl> wrote
Yeah; everybody knows that men can't/won't control themselves if they have
a
chance to rape.......
Alex; nothing gives you permission/consent except permission/consent- it's
not implicative or open to assumption.
Going to your room is not permission to have sex; showing you her ass
tattoo
is not permission for sex; kissing you until you get horny is not
permission
for sex (they're a pretty good start, but not yet consent).
You don't need to trick someone into sex- it's as available as anytime in
the history of mankind (except the '70's), so just hang out till you find
someone who actually wants to do it with you- there'll be little to
mistake.
Chas
Yeah, but when the woman continues with intimate activities without saying
"no" or "stop" there is no rape, and when the man stops when the female says
"stop" there is no rape. When the woman decides after the fact (having not
said "no" during the act) that she was unfulfilled or otherwise not
satisfied there is no rape.
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:08:33 -0400, Nicole <here@noneofyourbusiness.com>
wrote:
Alex wrote:
*Who* is responsible for rape again? The victim, or the perpetrator?
Where is the proof that there was even a rape in this case?
Which part of "beyond reasonable doubt" is unclear for you?
Once you have a ground to stand on, feel free to ask that question.
Right...
Yeah, like you know that.
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On 22 Sep 2004 23:47:55 -0700, nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<6064l0pnekiv21vcg9l10o9pf6vbgqnbq2@4ax.com>...
What's wrong, sporty-boy? Your inflatable doll having headaches again?
Yawn.
Another feminist who thinks that if someone disagrees with her, then he
must be one of those who cannot date or have sex with women.
It seems that, since you use dildos, then the whole world must be the
same.
But wait a second, what is a self claimed 30 years law veteran doing in
these newsgroups posting bull#@($ like this?
Next time, make sure that you cover your ass when you post such
outrageous claims like this, Linda.
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Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<ld17l0l0b4hbrp6o7vohu2edk49ies6vmq@4ax.com>...
Listen sporty, little man, you're the one who lives in a world where
all rape victims, and women generally, are lying scheming skanks, a
sure tell-tale sign if there ever was one of a perennial loser who
just can't measure up, literally or figuratively. So just go ahead
and take the pipe now, loser. Everybody will be better off for it.
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n 24 Sep 2004 12:44:39 -0700, nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<ld17l0l0b4hbrp6o7vohu2edk49ies6vmq@4ax.com>...
Listen sporty, little man,
Little man?
You have some weird sexual fantasies about little men?
I am willing to bet that you have fantasies about little boys too.
You're pathetic.
you're the one who lives in a world where
all rape victims, and women generally, are lying scheming skanks, a
No, douche bag, not all.
First of all, there was no rape no crime so that you can refer to the
accuser as a victim, you @$#*ing idiot.
Didn't you claim that you're a law veteran for blah blah blah years?
Isn't it basics of such things that you have to establish that there was
a crime committed before you call the accuser a victim?
Oops, while you were busy lying and trying to convince us all that you
are a law veteran, you forgot to look up this little fact that you
missed.
Court also agreed on this and prohibited the loser DA from referring to
the accuser as the victim.
I have seen real rape victims, and supported them even.
I am willing to bet that you never did.
Your type is just all bark and no bite, you are just loud and annoying,
but when the going gets tough, you disappear, just like when your hero
skank will disappear after she gets her trashy whore ass kicked out of
civil court.
Her lies will be exposed in civil court.
No lame rape shield crap laws to hide behind.
Ever asked your sorry self, why did her attorney ask to seal her records
while at the same time asked for Kobe's record to be unsealed?
It is obvious.
They know that they have no case, and they know well that they have liar
who is afraid of the jury listening to facts, and they would like to
force the jury to only listen to their side of the story.
The accuser is a sinking ship, feel free to sink with her.
Your likes are not wanted in the USA, where you want to lynch people
because of their color, race, or simply because they have money.
Since we have proven that you are a liar, it is no wonder to see you
side with the accuser, since liars usually support other liars.
I was surprised to hear the news when this was made public, but unlike
you, I waited until I could read as much as facts and research as I can,
and I can only see the truth, something that you and your likes are
trying to avoid as much as possible.
Let's examine the facts, douche bag, although not exactly in order as
they happened, but should clear, and even you should see how pathetic
you sound.
1. She has a history in trying to get attention, suicidal, unstable,
drug/medication/alcohol addiction and several mental disorders.
2. She tells her friend (someone willing to testify under oath about
this) that she is going to get a job in that hotel, trying to trap a
celebrity, and she is hoping that it would be Eminem.
3. She gets the job.
4. Kobe arrives, and she is all over him, chasing him like his shadow,
and flirting with him.
5. She stays after hours, in violation to the hotel policy, waiting for
a chance to go to his room.
6. Kobe calls after room service hours, and places an order for drinks.
She jumps all over the order, insists on taking it herself to the room,
despite the fact that room service hours ended before that.
7. She sneaks to the room, takes a different route, hoping to avoid
being seen or meeting anyone.
8. She goes to the room, flirts with him, shows him a tattoo on her ass,
kisses him, gives him a blow job, and then bends over, lifting her leg
asking him to "do" her.
9. She kisses him goodbye and leaves.
10. She claims that he choked her, and that there were bruises on her
neck, but neither the detectives noticed it, and the nurses that
examined her barely did.
11. She claimer that she was shaken, visibly shaken, upset and was
crying, and other hotel guests saw her.
In fact no one saw her like that, and the only person who was agreeing
with her was the bell boy who turned out to be one of many she slept
with.
Those hotel guests were not seeing located, or even came out to the
public.
The night auditor said she came back from the room with no signs of her
being upset, crying or anything like that, and in fact she stayed late
and wrapped up her work as usual.
12. The bell boy claimed that he was worried and the "guests" were
worried, but amazingly nobody called police or reported it.
13. She goes out to her car and immediately sends text message to her
friend, and her attorney was fighting hard to keep that out of the reach
of the defense team and then out of court.
14. She goes home and instead of telling anyone or reporting it, she
goes to sleep.
15. Next morning her mom tells her that she was raped, after telling
her.
They report it to police, waiting for almost 12 hours to do so.
16. Police start their usual bull#@($ of secretly recording Kobe, and
showing their incompetence when not processing his room, an alleged
crime scene as they should, and never gather any evidence from there.
17. The accuser goes to be examined, nurses express their suspicions
that she was even raped after examining her, since nothing they have
found indicates that there was rape or even forceful penetration.
18. The Sheriff's office goes behind the DA's back to obtain an arrest
warrant.
19. The Sheriff's office employees order a T-shirt with an hang man on
it with an anti Kobe message.
20. DA files charges without waiting for the DNA test results.
21. Accuser admits that she never said no, and when she told Kobe to
stop he did so immediately.
22. Detectives change their story later on trying to deny that they ever
mentioned the above in their report.
23. Prosecution tries withholding evidence from defense, and were
ordered by the judge to turn them over.
24. DNA evidence from swabs taken from the accuser's neck inner thighs,
cervix and vagina, and from Kobe, that Kobe had traces of the accuser's
DNA on him, while the accuser had Kobe's DNA and another person's DNA,
referred to as Mr. X later.
25. DA tries to discredit their own CBI lab finding, and asks for
testing in at private lab.
26. DA tries preventing the defense expert witness from attending the
tests, alleging that it is not their call but the private lab's call.
27. DA drops the second testing attempt.
28. DA's expert witnesses start jumping ship, telling them that they
have no case.
29. Accuser, while claiming that she was not looking for money and only
wanted Kobe to be punished for what he did, files a civil law suit,
claiming that it is the only way that she can get justice.
30. Why would an accuser EVEN hire an attorney in a criminal case?
Unless that she knows that she screwed up and wants to make sure that
she doesn't screw up again, and hopes that legal representation would
cover past lies as just mistakes or misunderstandings.
31. Defense asks for explanation of the DNA evidence and why someone
else's DNA showed up in her, and offers their theory of her having sex
immediately after the incident, totaling around 3 men within less than
24 hours.
Why would someone claiming to be raped immediately sleeps with someone
else?
32. DA and the accuser claim that it was an old underwear that she wore
with DNA left from a previous consensual sex that she had few days ago.
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in article 2fb0d153.0409241144.4b12e358@posting.google.com, Zeb Quinn at
nastygram@hotmail.com wrote on 9/24/04 12:44 PM:
Listen sporty, little man, you're the one who lives in a world where
all rape victims, and women generally, are lying scheming skanks, a
sure tell-tale sign if there ever was one of a perennial loser who
just can't measure up, literally or figuratively. So just go ahead
and take the pipe now, loser. Everybody will be better off for it.
interesting; can you cite please, where he ever said that?
inquiring minds and all....
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:31:29 GMT, catchmerevisited
<catchmerevisited2004@yahoo.ca> wrote:
in article 2fb0d153.0409241144.4b12e358@posting.google.com, Zeb Quinn at
nastygram@hotmail.com wrote on 9/24/04 12:44 PM:
interesting; can you cite please, where he ever said that?
inquiring minds and all....
Remember, this is the same person who guaranteed Kobe's conviction and
cannot get her lies straight, claiming that she is a law veteran (the
number changes everytime she/it posts) but still misses basics of
criminal law.
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t will be amusing to see Loserboy Quinn argue against the 40 points
Sportsfan lays out.
Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<2s69l05id9b8vdgo8r04eni29ikmc516eu@4ax.com>...
On 24 Sep 2004 12:44:39 -0700, nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
they happened, but should clear, and even you should see how pathetic
you sound.
1. She has a history in trying to get attention, suicidal, unstable,
drug/medication/alcohol addiction and several mental disorders.
2. She tells her friend (someone willing to testify under oath about
this) that she is going to get a job in that hotel, trying to trap a
celebrity, and she is hoping that it would be Eminem.
3. She gets the job.
4. Kobe arrives, and she is all over him, chasing him like his shadow,
and flirting with him.
5. She stays after hours, in violation to the hotel policy, waiting for
a chance to go to his room.
6. Kobe calls after room service hours, and places an order for drinks.
She jumps all over the order, insists on taking it herself to the room,
despite the fact that room service hours ended before that.
7. She sneaks to the room, takes a different route, hoping to avoid
being seen or meeting anyone.
8. She goes to the room, flirts with him, shows him a tattoo on her ass,
kisses him, gives him a blow job, and then bends over, lifting her leg
asking him to "do" her.
9. She kisses him goodbye and leaves.
10. She claims that he choked her, and that there were bruises on her
neck, but neither the detectives noticed it, and the nurses that
examined her barely did.
11. She claimer that she was shaken, visibly shaken, upset and was
crying, and other hotel guests saw her.
In fact no one saw her like that, and the only person who was agreeing
with her was the bell boy who turned out to be one of many she slept
with.
Those hotel guests were not seeing located, or even came out to the
public.
The night auditor said she came back from the room with no signs of her
being upset, crying or anything like that, and in fact she stayed late
and wrapped up her work as usual.
12. The bell boy claimed that he was worried and the "guests" were
worried, but amazingly nobody called police or reported it.
13. She goes out to her car and immediately sends text message to her
friend, and her attorney was fighting hard to keep that out of the reach
of the defense team and then out of court.
14. She goes home and instead of telling anyone or reporting it, she
goes to sleep.
15. Next morning her mom tells her that she was raped, after telling
her.
They report it to police, waiting for almost 12 hours to do so.
16. Police start their usual bull#@($ of secretly recording Kobe, and
showing their incompetence when not processing his room, an alleged
crime scene as they should, and never gather any evidence from there.
17. The accuser goes to be examined, nurses express their suspicions
that she was even raped after examining her, since nothing they have
found indicates that there was rape or even forceful penetration.
18. The Sheriff's office goes behind the DA's back to obtain an arrest
warrant.
19. The Sheriff's office employees order a T-shirt with an hang man on
it with an anti Kobe message.
20. DA files charges without waiting for the DNA test results.
21. Accuser admits that she never said no, and when she told Kobe to
stop he did so immediately.
22. Detectives change their story later on trying to deny that they ever
mentioned the above in their report.
23. Prosecution tries withholding evidence from defense, and were
ordered by the judge to turn them over.
24. DNA evidence from swabs taken from the accuser's neck inner thighs,
cervix and vagina, and from Kobe, that Kobe had traces of the accuser's
DNA on him, while the accuser had Kobe's DNA and another person's DNA,
referred to as Mr. X later.
25. DA tries to discredit their own CBI lab finding, and asks for
testing in at private lab.
26. DA tries preventing the defense expert witness from attending the
tests, alleging that it is not their call but the private lab's call.
27. DA drops the second testing attempt.
28. DA's expert witnesses start jumping ship, telling them that they
have no case.
29. Accuser, while claiming that she was not looking for money and only
wanted Kobe to be punished for what he did, files a civil law suit,
claiming that it is the only way that she can get justice.
30. Why would an accuser EVEN hire an attorney in a criminal case?
Unless that she knows that she screwed up and wants to make sure that
she doesn't screw up again, and hopes that legal representation would
cover past lies as just mistakes or misunderstandings.
31. Defense asks for explanation of the DNA evidence and why someone
else's DNA showed up in her, and offers their theory of her having sex
immediately after the incident, totaling around 3 men within less than
24 hours.
Why would someone claiming to be raped immediately sleeps with someone
else?
32. DA and the accuser claim that it was an old underwear that she wore
with DNA left from a previous consensual sex that she had few days ago.
Nice bull#@($, but nobody could explain how the same semen got to the
back the of the neck and inside her from underwear several days old.
33. Accuser immediately took a "vacation" right after reporting the
incident.
Real rape victims don't do that, they seek help or at least try to.
34. The accuser receives "victim" compensation 20 times higher than the
usual amount.
35. Accuser goes to a party, few days after the incident and starts
partying and joking about Kobe's "size" and the whole incident,
witnessed by 5 people who were willing to testify under oath.
36. Accuser goes to a resort, to a place known as dedicated for people
looking for sex, and flirting with total strangers and "Where it pays to
be bad", starts partying with a total stranger kissing him several times
and acting weird to a point that it caught the eye of 2 women total
strangers to her who were willing to testify under oath.
37. DA is caught hiding the fact that one of their expert witnesses
dropped them telling them that they have no case and the so called
injuries are nothing more than any thing like that could happen during
consensual sex, and the DA didn't report that to the defense since by
law, they are obliged to, a process called discovery.
38. Defense file for dismissal, and at the same time the DA asks the
judge to drop the case because it's everyone's fault but theirs, or
their lying accusers.
39. Accuser while claiming to be ill and cannot go on with the case,
seems to be comfortable to go with the civil case.
Proving to all that it was money that she was after, right from the get
go.
40. The fact that prosecution denying sharing evidence and findings, and
trying to hide them, says it all.
Get over yourself and see the facts for once.
The
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Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<2s69l05id9b8vdgo8r04eni29ikmc516eu@4ax.com>...
I graduated from law school and passed the bar exam 33 years ago. For
about 9 years following that I worked in securities and commodities,
and not as a trial lawyer, and I then transitioned into about 21 years
practicing law as a trial lawyer, including criminal defense and
domestic relations, among other things. I retired from that 3 years
ago. Got it? This appears to be what passes for a big "gotcha" in
your pathetic wannabe never-was and never-will-be life. It's really
sad.
As for Kobe's victim, I've said it before and I'll say it again
because you just don't seem to get it: Kobe spent $20 million
trashing her name and overwhelming the resources of Eagle County. It
is a small rural county that just doesn't have those kind of resources
to devote to a gardern variety rape case. In the meantime we have
never ever been allowed to hear anything from the victim, except what
has leaked out to the tabloids and the internet. She has been
instructed to keep her mouth shut, first by the DA, then by the
court's gag order, then by her own lawyer. So, every single item of
information that you or anyone else has ever heard about her,
including all the things you list, originated from and/or was sifted
through Kobe's $20 million spin machine. *NONE* of it is trustworthy.
I will wait until after the civil case unfolds to whatever degree it
does, AND until after I see Barbara Walters, or Diane Sawyer, or
Connie Chung, or whoever it is that sits down and does an in-depth
interview with her, and hear how she responds, hear what she says, see
and hear how she says it, and see how she appears when she says it,
before I even begin to make any assessments about her, and about
whether she is a bigger liar than Kobe. We already know for a fact
that Kobe is a cheating liar, because he was cornered and forced to
admit that much. The question is: How much *more* has he lied about?
Meanwhile, simple minded mental midget lightweights like you won't
wait, but, hey, don't feel bad, it's an era of simple minded mental
midget lightweights. Now get outa here go play with your inflatable
doll, because I'm done with you.
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On 25 Sep 2004 22:56:33 -0700, nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn)
wrote:
Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<2s69l05id9b8vdgo8r04eni29ikmc516eu@4ax.com>...
I graduated from law school and passed the bar exam 33 years ago. For
about 9 years following that I worked in securities and commodities,
and not as a trial lawyer, and I then transitioned into about 21 years
practicing law as a trial lawyer, including criminal defense and
domestic relations, among other things. I retired from that 3 years
ago. Got it? This appears to be what passes for a big "gotcha" in
your pathetic wannabe never-was and never-will-be life. It's really
sad.
As for Kobe's victim, I've said it before and I'll say it again
because you just don't seem to get it: Kobe spent $20 million
trashing her name and overwhelming the resources of Eagle County. It
is a small rural county that just doesn't have those kind of resources
to devote to a gardern variety rape case. In the meantime we have
never ever been allowed to hear anything from the victim, except what
has leaked out to the tabloids and the internet
She has been
instructed to keep her mouth shut, first by the DA, then by the
court's gag order, then by her own lawyer.
should have also kept her legs shut
So, every single item of
information that you or anyone else has ever heard about her,
including all the things you list, originated from and/or was sifted
through Kobe's $20 million spin machine. *NONE* of it is trustworthy.
I will wait until after the civil case unfolds to whatever degree it
does, AND until after I see Barbara Walters, or Diane Sawyer, or
Connie Chung, or whoever it is that sits down and does an in-depth
interview with her, and hear how she responds, hear what she says, see
and hear how she says it, and see how she appears when she says it,
before I even begin to make any assessments about her, and about
whether she is a bigger liar than Kobe. We already know for a fact
that Kobe is a cheating liar, because he was cornered and forced to
admit that much. The question is: How much *more* has he lied about?
Meanwhile, simple minded mental midget lightweights like you won't
wait, but, hey, don't feel bad, it's an era of simple minded mental
midget lightweights. Now get outa here go play with your inflatable
doll, because I'm done with you.
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As for Kobe's victim, I've said it before and I'll say it again
because you just don't seem to get it: Kobe spent $20 million
trashing her name and overwhelming the resources of Eagle County. It
is a small rural county that just doesn't have those kind of resources
to devote to a gardern variety rape case. In the meantime we have
never ever been allowed to hear anything from the victim, except what
has leaked out to the tabloids and the internet. She has been
instructed to keep her mouth shut, first by the DA, then by the
court's gag order, then by her own lawyer.
Wrong. The detective layed out her story step by step in the preliminary
hearing. Her lawyers meanwhile basically repeated the same story when they
filed the civil suit. Only someone like you who is ignorant about the facts
of the case, doesn't know her story.
So, every single item of
information that you or anyone else has ever heard about her,
including all the things you list, originated from and/or was sifted
through Kobe's $20 million spin machine. *NONE* of it is trustworthy.
I suppose sworn testimony is untrustworthy? What's funny is people still
refuse to believe she had sex after Kobe yet forget that the judge ruled
that it was admissable.
I will wait until after the civil case unfolds to whatever degree it
does, AND until after I see Barbara Walters, or Diane Sawyer, or
Connie Chung, or whoever it is that sits down and does an in-depth
interview with her, and hear how she responds, hear what she says, see
and hear how she says it, and see how she appears when she says it,
before I even begin to make any assessments about her, and about
whether she is a bigger liar than Kobe.
Oh don't worry. She'll put on a great performance with her bi-polar
disorder.
We already know for a fact
that Kobe is a cheating liar, because he was cornered and forced to
admit that much. The question is: How much *more* has he lied about?
We also know she is a liar. There is NO evidence that contradicts Kobe's
story, other than her. On the other hand, there are plenty of contradictions
in her story.
--
"The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the
second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent
ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists."
- Ernest Hemingway
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"dude" <not4real@bogus.com> wrote
should have also kept her legs shut
Interesting how all you guys turned into Mrs. Grundy all of a sudden.
It's hilarious.
Kobe Bryant at the mercy of a loose woman- plying her wily ways on a poor
country boy, first time in fast company, naive in the ways of love.
You've got to be kidding.
Chas
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In article <cj6qnj$b4b@dispatch.concentric.net>,
Don Tiberone <DonTiberoneNOSPAM@SKP.net> wrote:
There is NO evidence that contradicts Kobe's story,
Which one?
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tjab <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cj6s72$ir8@rac1.wam.umd.edu...
In article <cj6qnj$b4b@dispatch.concentric.net>,
Don Tiberone <DonTiberoneNOSPAM@SKP.net> wrote:
Which one?
Other than his initial denial of sex, why don't you provide them for us? And
cite it.
--
"The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the
second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent
ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists."
- Ernest Hemingway
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In article <2fb0d153.0409252156.6f6f6903@posting.google.com>,
nastygram@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
Sports Fan <sports@fan.home> wrote in message news:<2s69l05id9b8vdgo8r04eni29ikmc516eu@4ax.com>...
I graduated from law school and passed the bar exam 33 years ago. For
about 9 years following that I worked in securities and commodities,
and not as a trial lawyer, and I then transitioned into about 21 years
practicing law as a trial lawyer, including criminal defense and
domestic relations, among other things. I retired from that 3 years
ago. Got it? This appears to be what passes for a big "gotcha" in
your pathetic wannabe never-was and never-will-be life. It's really
sad.
Are there a lot of kooks in United States?
As for Kobe's victim, I've said it before and I'll say it again
because you just don't seem to get it: Kobe spent $20 million
trashing her name and overwhelming the resources of Eagle County. It
is a small rural county that just doesn't have those kind of resources
to devote to a gardern variety rape case. In the meantime we have
never ever been allowed to hear anything from the victim, except what
has leaked out to the tabloids and the internet. She has been
instructed to keep her mouth shut, first by the DA, then by the
court's gag order, then by her own lawyer. So, every single item of
information that you or anyone else has ever heard about her,
including all the things you list, originated from and/or was sifted
through Kobe's $20 million spin machine. *NONE* of it is trustworthy.
I will wait until after the civil case unfolds to whatever degree it
does, AND until after I see Barbara Walters, or Diane Sawyer, or
Connie Chung, or whoever it is that sits down and does an in-depth
interview with her, and hear how she responds, hear what she says, see
and hear how she says it, and see how she appears when she says it,
before I even begin to make any assessments about her, and about
whether she is a bigger liar than Kobe. We already know for a fact
that Kobe is a cheating liar, because he was cornered and forced to
admit that much. The question is: How much *more* has he lied about?
How much are Comcast Cable Communications Inc's rates?
Meanwhile, simple minded mental midget lightweights like you won't
wait, but, hey, don't feel bad, it's an era of simple minded mental
midget lightweights. Now get outa here go play with your inflatable
doll, because I'm done with you.
Do you know what Oregon's state flower is?
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hey Meat-->Retard, meet your replacement, Lady C! All the pointless
stupidity in a followup I could ever want and more! And it's
automated! With "Brand X" programming! Oh, oh you're obsolete now,
mother @$#*er. -- Onideus Mad Hatter
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