Treaty involving income tax for H1B workers between USA and CHINA PR.

Treaty involving income tax for H1B workers between USA and CHINA PR.

davige@gmail.com (David Ge)	11/16/2004 8:48:18 PM
Hi all. I have heard from my friend that there was a treaty between USA and CHINA PR involving the exemption (or reduction) of income tax for H1B workers, for up to three years after the entering into USA. She is currently in Louisiana and paying only 5% of her income for medical and security insurances, no state and federal income taxes. Is this true? Anyone has some knowledge of this? Thanks in advance. David.



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/17/2004 5:26:36 PM
On 16 Nov 2004 20:48:18 -0800, davige@gmail.com (David Ge) wrote: I have heard from my friend that there was a treaty between USA and CHINA PR involving the exemption (or reduction) of income tax for H1B workers, for up to three years after the entering into USA. She is currently in Louisiana and paying only 5% of her income for medical and security insurances, no state and federal income taxes. Is this true? Anyone has some knowledge of this? Smells like fraud to me. -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



L D Jones <3432513@yahoo.de>	11/17/2004 4:04:12 PM
David Ge wrote: Hi all. I have heard from my friend that there was a treaty between USA and CHINA PR involving the exemption (or reduction) of income tax for H1B workers, for up to three years after the entering into USA. She is currently in Louisiana and paying only 5% of her income for medical and security insurances, no state and federal income taxes. Is this true? Anyone has some knowledge of this? Ask your friend for a reference to an official document that describes this "treaty."



Christopher Green	11/18/2004 5:22:05 PM
On 16 Nov 2004 20:48:18 -0800, davige@gmail.com (David Ge) wrote: Hi all. I have heard from my friend that there was a treaty between USA and CHINA PR involving the exemption (or reduction) of income tax for H1B workers, for up to three years after the entering into USA. She is currently in Louisiana and paying only 5% of her income for medical and security insurances, no state and federal income taxes. Is this true? Anyone has some knowledge of this? Thanks in advance. David. The only tax treaty with China I know of is the 1984 one. That one provides that a resident of country A, working in country B for a company based in country A, is temporarily exempt from income tax in country B. That temporary exemption is only good for a six month temporary assignment, not anything like three years. Something smells about this arrangement. H1B workers normally pay regular taxes in the US. It is time to refer your friend to a local immigration lawyer, tax lawyer, or both. -- Not a lawyer, Chris Green



davige@gmail.com (David Ge)	11/18/2004 9:11:29 PM
Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message news:<rfmpp0pqlhcbkhuiei056a3gonbd6v74og@4ax.com>... The only tax treaty with China I know of is the 1984 one. That one provides that a resident of country A, working in country B for a company based in country A, is temporarily exempt from income tax in country B. That temporary exemption is only good for a six month temporary assignment, not anything like three years. Something smells about this arrangement. H1B workers normally pay regular taxes in the US. It is time to refer your friend to a local immigration lawyer, tax lawyer, or both. Thank you. You are really great, Mr. Green. The only purpose of mine posting this question is trying to conduct things legally and enjoy my right. I guess L D Jones might misunderstand that I want to evade my responsibility. If I made anybody impressed like this I want to say that's not true.



Lady Chatterly	11/19/2004 6:31:12 AM
In article <a901453f.0411182111.9a2dddb@posting.google.com> davige@gmail.com (David Ge) wrote: Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message news:<rfmpp0pqlhcbkhuiei056a3gonbd6v74og@4ax.com>... Thank you. You are really great, Mr. Green. The only purpose of mine posting this question is trying to conduct things legally and enjoy my right. I guess L D Jones might misunderstand that I want to evade my responsibility. If I made anybody impressed like this I want to say that's not true. Bill clinton. -- Lady Chatterly "I like you. fair just and witty. you should be our leader!" -- yyyiiinnnggg



L D Jones <3432513@yahoo.de>	11/19/2004 7:09:52 PM
David Ge wrote: Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message news:<rfmpp0pqlhcbkhuiei056a3gonbd6v74og@4ax.com>... Thank you. You are really great, Mr. Green. The only purpose of mine posting this question is trying to conduct things legally and enjoy my right. I guess L D Jones might misunderstand that I want to evade my responsibility. If I made anybody impressed like this I want to say that's not true. I did not misunderstand (in fact, I did not think enough about the problem to come to that conclusion)



davige@gmail.com (David Ge)	11/20/2004 5:25:07 PM
L D Jones <3432513@yahoo.de> wrote in message news:<307geuF2smvfcU1@uni-berlin.de>... David Ge wrote: I did not misunderstand (in fact, I did not think enough about the problem to come to that conclusion) Then that's okay. :) Good luck. David.



Mike Z. Helm	11/20/2004 8:37:09 PM
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:26:36 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> On 16 Nov 2004 20:48:18 -0800, davige@gmail.com (David Ge) wrote: Smells like fraud to me. The whole H1-B system is a fraud. It was corporate welfare in the form of cheap labor from 3rd world countries and unemployed American citizens. -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Mike Z. Helm	11/20/2004 8:40:57 PM
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:22:05 GMT, Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> Something smells about this arrangement. H1B workers normally pay regular taxes in the US. I'm sure they're required to, but how often does it actually happen? About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? It is time to refer your friend to a local immigration lawyer, tax lawyer, or both. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work. -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/21/2004 5:46:33 AM
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:40:57 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:22:05 GMT, Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> I'm sure they're required to, but how often does it actually happen? It happens all the time. About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? You need more than a body to perform a job. You also need a brain. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work. Afraid of competition, huh? -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



Joachim Feise	11/20/2004 9:47:33 PM
Mike Z. Helm wrote on 11/20/2004 19:40: On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:22:05 GMT, Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> I'm sure they're required to, but how often does it actually happen? Always. The IRS has sharp teeth. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work. Yet another clueless troll. PLONK!



Mike Z. Helm	11/21/2004 7:32:06 AM
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:46:33 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? You need more than a body to perform a job. You also need a brain. Apparently not - I've seen brainless H1-B workers replace American workers for much less pay. It is time to refer your friend to a local immigration lawyer, tax lawyer, or both. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work. Afraid of competition, huh? -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/21/2004 7:47:25 PM
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:32:06 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:46:33 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? Apparently not - I've seen brainless H1-B workers replace American workers for much less pay. Do you think the company benefited in the exchange? -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



davige@gmail.com (David Ge)	11/21/2004 5:20:31 PM
Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<kd30q052s3gtk24oc6s3knro9plnps1hfi@4ax.com>... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:22:05 GMT, Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> I'm sure they're required to, but how often does it actually happen? About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? Apparently you have little knowledge about this situation. Do some research. You know how long take my employer to recruit me？ One year. They must prove they cannot find a qualified American who would do this job. All the H1B workers are doing difficult or extremely-repetitive job that Americans either can not do or would not do. All my H1B friends are paying high taxs except this one in Louisiana so I feel confused. If you think this situation is not fair to American workers, show people your figures and evidence. The only reason for the strength of US is her brave nature of immigration and competition. You think otherwise then you were washed out. Good luck. David. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work.



Oliver Costich	11/22/2004 5:16:59 PM
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:25 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:32:06 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: Do you think the company benefited in the exchange? The company? Lower wages = higher profits. The US as a whole? Definitely not.



Oliver Costich	11/22/2004 5:22:09 PM
On 21 Nov 2004 17:20:31 -0800, davige@gmail.com (David Ge) wrote: Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<kd30q052s3gtk24oc6s3knro9plnps1hfi@4ax.com>... Apparently you have little knowledge about this situation. Do some research. You know how long take my employer to recruit me？ One year. They must prove they cannot find a qualified American who would do this job. All the H1B workers are doing difficult or extremely-repetitive job that Americans either can not do or would not do. All my H1B friends are paying high taxs except this one in Louisiana so I feel confused. The H1-B process requires no proof that an American can't be found. It requires that the employer pay the H1-B US wages which is simple to evade. See http://www.usaindians.com/immigration/h1bvisa.htm for the process. If you think this situation is not fair to American workers, show people your figures and evidence. Look at borjas.com for several studies of the effects of immigration on earnings. The only reason for the strength of US is her brave nature of immigration and competition. You think otherwise then you were washed out. Or at least underbid. Good luck. David.



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/22/2004 10:32:06 PM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:16:59 -0500, Oliver Costich <olc-caNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:25 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> wrote: The company? Lower wages = higher profits. I guess the shareholders benefited then, no? The US as a whole? Definitely not. Why not? -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



jjf@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell)	11/22/2004 3:43:20 PM
Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<kd30q052s3gtk24oc6s3knro9plnps1hfi@4ax.com>... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:22:05 GMT, Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> I'm sure they're required to, but how often does it actually happen? About as often as it does among the whole set of people who are required to pay regular taxes to the US. About as often as they're paid a competitive wage and there really are not any American citizens or even resident aliens who can perform the job? Roughly, yes, though probably even more often than that. It is time to abolish the H1-B visa program as well as the J-1 (slave labor) program, both of which put Americans out of work. It's time to enforce the rules of the H-1B program; that would prevent what abuse there is.



jjf@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell)	11/22/2004 3:45:40 PM
Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<ol91q0tiuvt66u6a5sgg3hup02adh07vrs@4ax.com>... I've seen brainless H1-B workers replace American workers for much less pay. That's illegal; did you report it?



Joachim Feise	11/22/2004 4:30:11 PM
Oliver Costich wrote on 11/22/2004 14:22: Look at borjas.com for several studies of the effects of immigration on earnings. These are essentially about the effects of unqualified labor. H1s are given to college graduates. Quite the opposite of unqualified labor... -Joe



Mike Z. Helm	11/22/2004 5:53:12 PM
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:25 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:32:06 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: Do you think the company benefited in the exchange? They thought they were at the time, but they were ultimately reduced to a shell of their former self. I thought the 7-for-1 reverse stock split they implemented less than a year before being delisted from NASDAQ was very amusing. -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Mike Z. Helm	11/22/2004 5:54:40 PM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:06 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:16:59 -0500, Oliver Costich <olc-caNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote: I guess the shareholders benefited then, no? No, actually, the shareholders - if they held onto their stock watched the price fall from $20 a share to about a nickel. Why not? -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Mike Z. Helm	11/22/2004 5:56:03 PM
On 22 Nov 2004 15:43:20 -0800, jjf@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<kd30q052s3gtk24oc6s3knro9plnps1hfi@4ax.com>... About as often as it does among the whole set of people who are required to pay regular taxes to the US. Roughly, yes, though probably even more often than that. It's time to enforce the rules of the H-1B program; that would prevent what abuse there is. I'd be perfectly happy with that. -- There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/23/2004 2:27:04 AM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:53:12 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: Apparently not - I've seen brainless H1-B workers replace American workers for much less pay. They thought they were at the time, but they were ultimately reduced to a shell of their former self. So, they acted against their own best interests and got screwed. Or maybe they decided to hire the brainless people as a last resort. In any case, American workers obviously didn't miss too much. -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/23/2004 2:36:33 AM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:54:40 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:06 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> No, actually, the shareholders - if they held onto their stock watched the price fall from $20 a share to about a nickel. I guess the "higher profits" thing was a bad assumption on the part of Oliver, then. That company was already moribund. It appears to me the hiring of H1-B's was a last desperate attempt to turn things around. You didn't miss much. -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



Oliver Costich	11/23/2004 3:37:14 PM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:06 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:16:59 -0500, Oliver Costich <olc-caNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote: I guess the shareholders benefited then, no? Some, but not as much as you might expect. Corporate officers, yes. Why not? Because the benefits in profit, however distributed, do not exceed the social costs to the taxpayers. Since you admittedly don't know the numbers, you might want to do some homework.



Oliver Costich	11/23/2004 3:38:44 PM
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:36:33 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease <root@localhost.> wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:54:40 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote: I guess the "higher profits" thing was a bad assumption on the part of Oliver, then. That company was already moribund. It appears to me the hiring of H1-B's was a last desperate attempt to turn things around. You didn't miss much. Obviously, all things else being equal, lower labor cost gives higher profits (unless all savings are passed to consumers - that'll happen).



Oliver Costich	11/23/2004 3:40:01 PM
On 22 Nov 2004 15:45:40 -0800, jjf@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote: Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<ol91q0tiuvt66u6a5sgg3hup02adh07vrs@4ax.com>... That's illegal; did you report it? No it's not illegal. You can hire an H1B for less than you can hire an American in most cases. Read the H1B program requirements.



Oliver Costich	11/23/2004 3:42:14 PM
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:30:11 -0800, Joachim Feise <me@privacy.net> wrote: Oliver Costich wrote on 11/22/2004 14:22: These are essentially about the effects of unqualified labor. H1s are given to college graduates. Quite the opposite of unqualified labor... -Joe It's about substitution of US citizens labor by imported labor.



Oliver Costich	11/23/2004 3:47:21 PM
On 22 Nov 2004 15:43:20 -0800, jjf@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote: Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known> wrote in message news:<kd30q052s3gtk24oc6s3knro9plnps1hfi@4ax.com>... About as often as it does among the whole set of people who are required to pay regular taxes to the US. Roughly, yes, though probably even more often than that. Not necessarily. H1B salaries are gerrymandered. It's time to enforce the rules of the H-1B program; that would prevent what abuse there is. Yes, it's time to require hard evidence that no American is capable of the work, not just that they won't work cheap enough.



Socialism is a Mental Disease	11/23/2004 9:09:04 PM
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:37:14 -0500, Oliver Costich <olc-caNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote: Some, but not as much as you might expect. Corporate officers, yes. Well, that's an issue for the shareholders to address with the Board of Directors. The US as a whole? Definitely not. Why not? Because the benefits in profit, however distributed, do not exceed the social costs to the taxpayers. Since you admittedly don't know the numbers, you might want to do some homework. "Social costs to taxpayers" exist because of socialism, not because of H1-B's. -- "A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule." -- Ayn Rand



Joachim Feise	11/23/2004 1:12:40 PM
Oliver Costich wrote on 11/23/2004 12:42: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:30:11 -0800, Joachim Feise <me@privacy.net> wrote: It's about substitution of US citizens labor by imported labor. No serious study would look at that in the general way you suggest. And Borjas of course knows that, and you obviously not. Borjas shows that there is a big difference in the effects of imported unqualified labor and imported qualified labor. I suggest you read Borjas a bit more carefully... -Joe

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