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Valley wrote:
You're ignoring the elephant in the living room:
According to www.statcan.ca, the official source for
Canadian social and economic statistics and products, and
the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice
Statistics, crime in Canada is MUCH worse than in the USA.
Don't believe me, check it yourself.
For the year 2003, per 100,000 population, Canada had 8,530
crimes, and the U.S. 4,267. For crimes of violence, 958 vs.
523. For property crimes, 4,275 vs. 3,744.
Proof the U$$A is the "greatest" nation on earth:
Prisoners (per 1,000 people)
United States 4.2
United Kingdom 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 0.8
Austria 0.8
Spain 0.8
Switzerland 0.7
Denmark 0.7
Belgium 0.7
Italy 0.6
Sweden 0.6
Japan 0.4
Netherlands 0.4
Annual reports of police brutality (per 100,000 people)
United States 92.5
United Kingdom 6.0
France 0.7
Death row inmates
United States 2,124
Japan 38
All others 0
Murder rate (per 100,000 people)
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
France 4.60
Portugal 4.50
Australia 4.48
Germany 4.20
Belgium 2.80
Spain 2.28
Switzerland 2.25
Italy 2.18
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Austria 1.80
Greece 1.76
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Ireland 0.96
Finland 0.70
Murder rate for males age 15-24 (per 100,000 people)
United States 24.4
Canada 2.6
Sweden 2.3
Norway 2.3
Finland 2.3
Denmark 2.2
United Kingdom 2.0
Netherlands 1.2
Germany 0.9
Japan 0.5
Rape (per 100,000 people)
United States 37.20
Sweden 15.70
Denmark 11.23
Germany 8.60
Norway 7.87
United Kingdom 7.26
Finland 7.20
France 6.77
Switzerland 6.15
Luxembourg 5.00
Spain 4.43
Austria 4.40
Belgium 4.00
Greece 2.40
Ireland 1.72
Japan 1.40
Portugal 1.20
Armed robbery (per 100,000 people)
United States 221
Canada 94
France 90
Belgium 66
United Kingdom 63
Italy 50
Sweden 49
Germany 47
Ireland 46
Denmark 44
Finland 38
Switzerland 23
Norway 22
Greece 7
Japan 1
TYPE OF OFFENSE (Sentenced Pop. Only) - Federal Prisoners
Drug Offenses 59.6%
Robbery 9.8%
Property Offenses 5.5%
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery 6.8%
Violent Offenses 2.7%
Firearms, Explosives, Arson 8.6%
White Collar 1.0%
Immigration 2.8%
Courts or Corrections 0.8%
National Security 0.1%
Continuing Criminal Enterprise 0.8%
Miscellaneous 1.5%
THE INTERNATIONAL EVIDENCE
The U.S. is the most violent society in the industrialized world, and probably
the entire world as well. Although it doesn't have the most police per capita,
the U.S. does have the toughest laws and punishments by far. The question of
which came first, the chicken or the egg, is becoming much less relevant as time
passes; the U.S. has been following this "get tough" approach for decades, with
no significant reduction of its violent crime rate.
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That's right. With freedom comes abuses of freedom. I'll take
freedom anyway.
S. O. Damocles wrote:
Valley wrote:
Proof the U$$A is the "greatest" nation on earth:
Prisoners (per 1,000 people)
United States 4.2
United Kingdom 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 0.8
Austria 0.8
Spain 0.8
Switzerland 0.7
Denmark 0.7
Belgium 0.7
Italy 0.6
Sweden 0.6
Japan 0.4
Netherlands 0.4
Annual reports of police brutality (per 100,000 people)
United States 92.5
United Kingdom 6.0
France 0.7
Death row inmates
United States 2,124
Japan 38
All others 0
Murder rate (per 100,000 people)
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
France 4.60
Portugal 4.50
Australia 4.48
Germany 4.20
Belgium 2.80
Spain 2.28
Switzerland 2.25
Italy 2.18
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Austria 1.80
Greece 1.76
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Ireland 0.96
Finland 0.70
Murder rate for males age 15-24 (per 100,000 people)
United States 24.4
Canada 2.6
Sweden 2.3
Norway 2.3
Finland 2.3
Denmark 2.2
United Kingdom 2.0
Netherlands 1.2
Germany 0.9
Japan 0.5
Rape (per 100,000 people)
United States 37.20
Sweden 15.70
Denmark 11.23
Germany 8.60
Norway 7.87
United Kingdom 7.26
Finland 7.20
France 6.77
Switzerland 6.15
Luxembourg 5.00
Spain 4.43
Austria 4.40
Belgium 4.00
Greece 2.40
Ireland 1.72
Japan 1.40
Portugal 1.20
Armed robbery (per 100,000 people)
United States 221
Canada 94
France 90
Belgium 66
United Kingdom 63
Italy 50
Sweden 49
Germany 47
Ireland 46
Denmark 44
Finland 38
Switzerland 23
Norway 22
Greece 7
Japan 1
TYPE OF OFFENSE (Sentenced Pop. Only) - Federal Prisoners
Drug Offenses 59.6%
Robbery 9.8%
Property Offenses 5.5%
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery 6.8%
Violent Offenses 2.7%
Firearms, Explosives, Arson 8.6%
White Collar 1.0%
Immigration 2.8%
Courts or Corrections 0.8%
National Security 0.1%
Continuing Criminal Enterprise 0.8%
Miscellaneous 1.5%
THE INTERNATIONAL EVIDENCE
The U.S. is the most violent society in the industrialized world, and probably
the entire world as well. Although it doesn't have the most police per capita,
the U.S. does have the toughest laws and punishments by far. The question of
which came first, the chicken or the egg, is becoming much less relevant as time
passes; the U.S. has been following this "get tough" approach for decades, with
no significant reduction of its violent crime rate.
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Valley wrote:
Proof the U$$A is the "greatest" nation on earth:
Murder rate (per 100,000 people)
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
France 4.60
Portugal 4.50
Australia 4.48
For Australia
Total Homicide is about 1.8 per 100 000
(and has been for the last century)
Murder is 88% of that figure (1.584 %)
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2003/part2.html
[quote stt]
The definition of homicide used by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS)
is the unlawful killing of another person. Homicide statistics discussed
here
include the following categories of offences
murder : the wilful killing of a person either intentionally or with
reckless indifference to life; and
manslaughter : the unlawful killing of a person caused:
without intent to kill, usually as a result of a careless, reckless or
negligent act; or
intentionally, but due to extreme provocation; or
when in a state of mind that impairs the capacity to understand or control
one's actions.
Data from the ABS are supplemented with more detailed information collected
by the
Australian Institute of Criminology through the National Homicide Monitoring
Program.
There were 363 homicides in Australia in 2002, with two victims per 100,000
population. This represents an increase of 7% over the 340 homicides in
2001.
Murder accounted for 88% of the victims recorded in 2002. The remainder
were victims of manslaughter
[quote fin]
Your source is 200% incorrect with it's representation of Australian
homicide/murder/manlaughter rates. I can't be bothered checking any of the
other
details you have mentioned.They are obviously contaminated beyond belief.
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LibForBush wrote:
That's right. With freedom comes abuses of freedom. I'll take
freedom anyway.
Want some Freedom Fries with that, you jackbooted fascist?
S. O. Damocles wrote:
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regn.pickford wrote:
For Australia
Total Homicide is about 1.8 per 100 000
(and has been for the last century)
Murder is 88% of that figure (1.584 %)
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2003/part2.html
[quote stt]
The definition of homicide used by the Australian Bureau of
Statistics (ABS) is the unlawful killing of another person. Homicide
statistics discussed here
include the following categories of offences
murder : the wilful killing of a person either intentionally or with
reckless indifference to life; and
manslaughter : the unlawful killing of a person caused:
without intent to kill, usually as a result of a careless, reckless or
negligent act; or
intentionally, but due to extreme provocation; or
when in a state of mind that impairs the capacity to understand or
control one's actions.
Data from the ABS are supplemented with more detailed information
collected by the
Australian Institute of Criminology through the National Homicide
Monitoring Program.
There were 363 homicides in Australia in 2002, with two victims per
100,000 population. This represents an increase of 7% over the 340
homicides in 2001.
Murder accounted for 88% of the victims recorded in 2002. The
remainder were victims of manslaughter
[quote fin]
Your source is 200% incorrect with it's representation of Australian
homicide/murder/manlaughter rates. I can't be bothered checking any
of the other details you have mentioned.They are obviously contaminated
beyond
belief.
Great news, they found singular anomolies in the 2004 vote counts, therefore
the entire U$ election is "obviously contaminated beyond belief" !
--
"I don't see any way of winning" [in Vietnam]
-- President Lyndon Johnson privately to
Defense Secretary McNamara 1965
"America wins the wars that she undertakes.
Make no mistake about it!"
-- President Lyndon Johnson public speech
1965 re: Vietnam War
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(snipped)
According to www.statcan.ca, the official source for
Canadian social and economic statistics and products, and
the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice
Statistics, crime in Canada is MUCH worse than in the USA.
Don't believe me, check it yourself.
Statistics is like pissing in the wind. What about crime not reported for
various reasons...like a sense of hopelessness about anything being done.
Fear of reprisal. Lack of evidence.
Also, reading of magistrates who show contempt for victims by slap-on-the
wrist fines for violence.
South Africa since Mandela has stopped publishing it's murder rate because
the figures got so embarrassing to show to the world.
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Stan Pierce wrote:
(snipped)
According to www.statcan.ca, the official source for
Canadian social and economic statistics and products, and
the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice
Statistics, crime in Canada is MUCH worse than in the USA.
Don't believe me, check it yourself.
Statistics is like pissing in the wind. What about crime not reported for
various reasons...like a sense of hopelessness about anything being done.
Fear of reprisal. Lack of evidence.
Also, reading of magistrates who show contempt for victims by slap-on-the
wrist fines for violence.
South Africa since Mandela has stopped publishing it's murder rate because
the figures got so embarrassing to show to the world.
That wasn't my post. Please be careful whom you quote!
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Valley wrote:
You're ignoring the elephant in the living room:
According to www.statcan.ca, the official source for
Canadian social and economic statistics and products, and
the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice
Statistics, crime in Canada is MUCH worse than in the USA.
Don't believe me, check it yourself.
For the year 2003, per 100,000 population, Canada had 8,530
crimes, and the U.S. 4,267. For crimes of violence, 958 vs.
523. For property crimes, 4,275 vs. 3,744.
Stop being silly. The statistics are not at all comparable because the two
nations use different definitions and include different types of crime.
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"David Butler" <butlerD@rogers.com> wrote...
Valley wrote:
Stop being silly. The statistics are not at all comparable because the two
nations use different definitions and include different types of crime.
Exactly. While I was about to seize upon Canada's higher crime rate to defend
the right to keep and bear arms, I now see that the quoted statistics do not
refer to "violent crimes" and thus are misleading. Canada is a socialistic
paradise. Every unorthodox thought or action is a crime in Canada. Therefore,
Canada's higher "crime" rate is most likely due to the definition of things
that are NOT a crime in the U.S. For example, the U.S. has virtually
absolute freedom of speech; criticizing a minority group for its behavior
is absolutely protected in the U.S. But in Canada such speech is a crime,
in fact it is defined as a "hate crime." As an American if I were to say
that blacks rob liquor stores more often than whites or that Muslims blow
things up more often than Hare Krishnas, I would be perfectly protected and
face no penalty whatsoever. But saying the exact same thing north of the
border I would be committing the most serious "crimes."
So I will not accept this thread's statistic, much as I would like to. I
still fiercely defend our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms,
but I also believe in truth. If someone could please post some
statistics comparing Canada's rate of violent (and preferable firearm)
crime to the U.S.'s I would appreciate it. And on that subject, while I
don't have a link, I do remember reading not too long ago a comparison of
Mexico's firearm homicide rate with the U.S's. They were virtually
identical (something like 14.x per 100,000?), although Mexico is a police
state where gun ownership is almost completely prohibited (and they even
have thousands of police-state checkpoints along the country's highways
to search for guns). In Mexico - with very few exceptions for the
powerful and wealthy elite and their bodyguards - only the police and
military can possess firearms; and in reality the country is in a state
of virtual anarchy.
I can safely attest to this, I live in Laredo, Texas, on the Mexican
border and it's so strange that just a few blocks of territory means the
difference between living a safe, quiet, and uneventful life on the U.S.
side and being kidnapped and forced to withdraw your life savings at an
ATM machine, if not murdered on the Mexican side. A Mexican lady I know
just had her car stolen a few months ago, bought a new car, and had that
stolen last week. Fortunately for her, she doesn't make enough money to
be an attractive kidnap victim, but if she did she would not legally be
able to defend herself. If she lived in Canada and someone tried to rob
her and she fought back, she might even be charged with some sort of
civil rights violation. I wouldn't even be surprised if Canadian law
prohibited anti-theft alarm systems in cars, as that might deprive
car thieves of their "human right" to earn a living by stealing cars.
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"David Butler" <butlerD@rogers.com> wrote...
Exactly. While I was about to seize upon Canada's higher crime rate to
defend
the right to keep and bear arms, I now see that the quoted statistics do
not
refer to "violent crimes" and thus are misleading. Canada is a
socialistic
paradise. Every unorthodox thought or action is a crime in Canada.
Therefore,
Canada's higher "crime" rate is most likely due to the definition of
things
that are NOT a crime in the U.S.
And yet, oddly, the US has a far higher rate of incarceration. In fact, it
has more people in prison per capita than anywhere on Earth.
No, I'm afraid you're just being silly too. The US rates refer to violent
crimes while the Canadian rates have a broader definition and include such
things as simple assault not included in US statistics.
As an American if I were to say
that blacks rob liquor stores more often than whites or that Muslims blow
things up more often than Hare Krishnas, I would be perfectly protected
and
face no penalty whatsoever. But saying the exact same thing north of the
border I would be committing the most serious "crimes."
Well, as I have said similar things many times and have thus far faced no
criminal sanction I think I can say with reasonable certainty that you are
again, talking out of your ass.
I can safely attest to this, I live in Laredo, Texas, on the Mexican
border and it's so strange that just a few blocks of territory means the
difference between living a safe, quiet, and uneventful life on the U.S.
side and being kidnapped and forced to withdraw your life savings at an
ATM machine, if not murdered on the Mexican side.
Indeed. Many Canadians feel the same way about your out-of-control violent
crime, and are glad we don't have the same situation on this side of the
border.
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Isn't Martha Stewart in jail for lying to investigators? No such crime in
Canada.
Tell all those who suffered under McCarthyism that the US has "virtually
absolute freedom of speech". And I'm not sure that it's qualitatively
different now, as the case of comedian Bill Maher reveals. There is more to
freedom of speech in real life than lack of *government* restriction. And
no, I'm not saying that Canada is free of this sort of thing, either - see
Carolyn Parrish, drummed out of the Liberal caucus for . . . oh, yeah,
saying bad things about George Bush.
David Nicholson _________________________
"Jason Voorhees" wrote:
For example, the U.S. has virtually
absolute freedom of speech;
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Isn't Martha Stewart in jail for lying to investigators? No such crime in
Canada.
Tell all those who suffered under McCarthyism that the US has "virtually
absolute freedom of speech". And I'm not sure that it's qualitatively
different now, as the case of comedian Bill Maher reveals. There is more
to
freedom of speech in real life than lack of *government* restriction. And
no, I'm not saying that Canada is free of this sort of thing, either - see
Carolyn Parrish, drummed out of the Liberal caucus for . . . oh, yeah,
saying bad things about George Bush.
David Nicholson _________________________
Heh, she was drummed out for acting like a child stomping her feet.
Which pretty much describes all left wingers.
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"David Nicholson" had written:
Heh, she was drummed out for acting like a child stomping her feet.
Which pretty much describes all left wingers.
Excellent addition to a discussion on freedom of speech.
David Nicholson ____________________________
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"David Butler" <butlerD@rogers.com> wrote...
I can safely attest to this, I live in Laredo, Texas, on the Mexican
border and it's so strange that just a few blocks of territory means the
difference between living a safe, quiet, and uneventful life on the U.S.
side and being kidnapped and forced to withdraw your life savings at an
ATM machine, if not murdered on the Mexican side.
Indeed. Many Canadians feel the same way about your out-of-control violent
crime, and are glad we don't have the same situation on this side of the
border.
Our violent crime is not "out of control" as you suggest. As I said, my
city of Laredo, Texas, USA is perfectly safe, although some violent crime
does occur. Yet just a mile away in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico
there is anarchy. While I'm happy Canada has a fairly low violent crime
rate, it is ridiculous to suggest it is a result of your strict gun
control policies. Mexico's gun control laws are at least as strict as
Canada's and I've already said that country is in a state of anarchy,
the entire society has fallen apart and the criminals and the police are
one and the same. I mentioned the kidnapping epidemic in Mexico and
you can clearly see that while criminals brazenly abduct Mexicans off
the street in broad daylight, they would never get away with it here in
the U.S. where a good number of Americans carry guns and can defend
themselves. Fortunately, Canada's society is not corrupted to the core
like Mexico's, so at least you don't have to worry about your police
robbing, raping, kidnapping, and murdering you like Mexicans do.
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"David Butler" <butlerD@rogers.com> wrote...
I can safely attest to this, I live in Laredo, Texas, on the Mexican
border and it's so strange that just a few blocks of territory means the
difference between living a safe, quiet, and uneventful life on the U.S.
side and being kidnapped and forced to withdraw your life savings at an
ATM machine, if not murdered on the Mexican side.
Our violent crime is not "out of control" as you suggest. As I said, my
city of Laredo, Texas, USA is perfectly safe, although some violent crime
does occur. Yet just a mile away in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico
there is anarchy. While I'm happy Canada has a fairly low violent crime
rate, it is ridiculous to suggest it is a result of your strict gun
control policies.
I made no such claim regarding gun control. American crime rates are more
closely related to the hopeless, miserable, resentful, uneducated
underclass, mainly of blacks and hispanics you have allowed to build up in
your inner cities. Your fetish for allowing everyone to own everything short
of rocket launchers and "nucular" weapons simply exacerabates that
situation.
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