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HAYWARD, Wisconsin (AP) -- A man suspected in the killings of six hunters told
investigators he began firing after he was shot at first and some of the victims
called him racially derogatory names, according to documents filed Tuesday.
A judge set bail at $2.5 million for Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minnestora, who
is suspected in the killings Sunday of six deer hunters and the wounding of two
others.
Bail was set after investigators filed documents arguing there was probable
cause to hold Vang in the shootings. No charges have been filed.
Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, was arrested Sunday about four hours after
the shootings as he emerged from the woods with his empty SKS 7.62 mm
semiautomatic rifle.
Sawyer County Sheriff Jim Meier said a dispute over Vang's use of a tree
stand -- a raised platform used by hunters -- on private property preceded the
gunfire.
Vang told investigators he didn't realize he was on private property when he
climbed the tree stand, according to the probable-cause statement released
Tuesday.
A hunter approached Vang to tell him he was on private property, and Vang
started to leave as other hunters approached, the statement said. Vang said the
hunters surrounded him, and some started calling him racial slurs.
Vang said he started walking away but looked back to see the first hunter point
his rifle at him and then fire a shot that hit the ground 30 to 40 feet behind
him, the statement said.
That's when Vang told investigators he started firing at the group, and some
fell to the ground and others tried to run away, according to the statement.
Five people died at the scene and a sixth died Monday in a hospital. Two others
were wounded.
The dead were identified as the landowner, Robert Crotteau, 42; his son Joey,
20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55, who
died Monday at St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield.
Willers' father, Terry Willers, remained hospitalized Tuesday in fair condition,
while the other wounded hunter was released.
Officials said the victims were part of a group of 14 or 15 who made their
opening-weekend trip to the 400-acre property an annual tradition.
"This was his first time out with that group. He was delighted to be invited,"
said Karen Roidt, mother of victim Mark Roidt.
According to an account by authorities Monday, two or three hunters spotted a
man in a hunting platform on Crotteau's land, then radioed back to the rest of
the party at a cabin nearby, and were told no one who should be there.
One of the men approached the intruder and asked him to leave, as Crotteau and
the others in the cabin hopped on their all-terrain vehicles and headed to the
scene, according to the account.
"The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards, fiddled with his
rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he turned and he opened fire on the
group," Meier said.
One of the men called for help on his radio, and those who arrived to help also
were shot, authorities said.
He was "chasing after them and killing them," Deputy Tim Zeigle said. "He hunted
them down." There was only one firearm among the eight hunters and it was
unclear whether anyone returned fire, authorities had said.
Some Hmong leaders had questioned whether racial differences may have figured in
the shootings.
Sang Vang said his family was devastated, and that his brother has lived in the
United States for more than 20 years and is a U.S. Army veteran.
Minneapolis police said they arrested Vang on Christmas Eve 2001 after he waved
a gun and threatened to kill his wife. No charge was brought because she didn't
cooperate with authorities, spokesman Ron Reier said. Police in St. Paul said
there had been two domestic violence calls to his home in the past year, but
both were resolved without incident.
There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and white hunters in
the region. Locals in the Birchwood area, about 120 miles northeast of the Twin
Cities, have complained that the Hmong, refugees from Laos, do not understand
the concept of private property and hunt wherever they see fit.
Vang's arrest left some Hmong citizens in his hometown fearful of a backlash,
and a group of Hmong leaders in St. Paul condemned the shootings Tuesday and
offered condolences to victims' families.
"What happened in Wisconsin is in no way representative of the Hmong people and
what they stand for," said Cha Vang, who said he was representing "the greater
law-abiding Hmong community." He is no relation to Chai Vang.
About 24,000 Hmong live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any U.S. city.
And the shooting has already provoked racial tension in an area of Wisconsin
where deer hunting is steeped in tradition.
Minnesota state Sen. Mee Moua rejected the idea that cultural differences played
any role in the shooting.
"We're all just speculating that may have been a trigger for him," said Moua,
who is Hmong. "We're all searching for answers."
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S. O. Damocles wrote:
HAYWARD, Wisconsin (AP) -- A man suspected in the killings
of six hunters told investigators he began firing after he
was shot at first and some of the victims called him
racially derogatory names, according to documents filed
Tuesday.
A judge set bail at $2.5 million for Chai Vang, 36, of St.
Paul, Minnestora, who is suspected in the killings Sunday
of six deer hunters and the wounding of two others.
Bail was set after investigators filed documents arguing
there was probable cause to hold Vang in the shootings. No
charges have been filed.
Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, was arrested Sunday
about four hours after the shootings as he emerged from the
woods with his empty SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle.
Sawyer County Sheriff Jim Meier said a dispute over Vang's
use of a tree stand -- a raised platform used by hunters -- on private
property preceded the gunfire.
Vang told investigators he didn't realize he was on private
property when he climbed the tree stand, according to the
probable-cause statement released Tuesday.
A hunter approached Vang to tell him he was on private
property, and Vang started to leave as other hunters
approached, the statement said. Vang said the hunters
surrounded him, and some started calling him racial slurs.
Vang said he started walking away but looked back to see
the first hunter point his rifle at him and then fire a
shot that hit the ground 30 to 40 feet behind him, the
statement said.
That's when Vang told investigators he started firing at
the group, and some fell to the ground and others tried to
run away, according to the statement.
Five people died at the scene and a sixth died Monday in a
hospital. Two others were wounded.
The dead were identified as the landowner, Robert Crotteau,
42; his son Joey, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica
Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55, who died Monday at St.
Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield.
Willers' father, Terry Willers, remained hospitalized
Tuesday in fair condition, while the other wounded hunter
was released.
Officials said the victims were part of a group of 14 or 15
who made their opening-weekend trip to the 400-acre
property an annual tradition.
"This was his first time out with that group. He was
delighted to be invited," said Karen Roidt, mother of
victim Mark Roidt.
According to an account by authorities Monday, two or three
hunters spotted a man in a hunting platform on Crotteau's
land, then radioed back to the rest of the party at a cabin
nearby, and were told no one who should be there.
One of the men approached the intruder and asked him to
leave, as Crotteau and the others in the cabin hopped on
their all-terrain vehicles and headed to the scene,
according to the account.
"The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards,
fiddled with his rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he
turned and he opened fire on the group," Meier said.
One of the men called for help on his radio, and those who
arrived to help also were shot, authorities said.
He was "chasing after them and killing them," Deputy Tim
Zeigle said. "He hunted them down." There was only one
firearm among the eight hunters and it was unclear whether
anyone returned fire, authorities had said.
Some Hmong leaders had questioned whether racial
differences may have figured in the shootings.
Sang Vang said his family was devastated, and that his
brother has lived in the United States for more than 20
years and is a U.S. Army veteran.
Minneapolis police said they arrested Vang on Christmas Eve
2001 after he waved a gun and threatened to kill his wife.
No charge was brought because she didn't cooperate with
authorities, spokesman Ron Reier said. Police in St. Paul
said there had been two domestic violence calls to his home
in the past year, but both were resolved without incident.
There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian
and white hunters in the region. Locals in the Birchwood
area, about 120 miles northeast of the Twin Cities, have
complained that the Hmong, refugees from Laos, do not
understand the concept of private property and hunt
wherever they see fit.
Vang's arrest left some Hmong citizens in his hometown
fearful of a backlash, and a group of Hmong leaders in St.
Paul condemned the shootings Tuesday and offered
condolences to victims' families.
"What happened in Wisconsin is in no way representative of
the Hmong people and what they stand for," said Cha Vang,
who said he was representing "the greater law-abiding Hmong
community." He is no relation to Chai Vang.
About 24,000 Hmong live in St. Paul, the highest
concentration of any U.S. city. And the shooting has
already provoked racial tension in an area of Wisconsin
where deer hunting is steeped in tradition.
Minnesota state Sen. Mee Moua rejected the idea that
cultural differences played any role in the shooting.
"We're all just speculating that may have been a trigger
for him," said Moua, who is Hmong. "We're all searching for
answers."
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S. O. Damocles wrote:
S. O. Damocles wrote:
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"S. O. Damocles" <so@damocl.es> wrote:
S. O. Damocles wrote:
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Well he was a better shot than the whities. We should import those Hmongs
and make 'em snipers in the army.
"S. O. Damocles" <so@damocl.es> wrote:
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:44:53 GMT, "Falky foo"
<falkyfoo@bonksbcglobal.net> wrote:
Well he was a better shot than the whities. We should import those Hmongs
and make 'em snipers in the army.
Well, this particular Hmong was apparently a U.S. Army veteran.
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In article <pIRod.21792$zx1.2976@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
Falky foo <falkyfoo@bonksbcglobal.net> wrote:
Well he was a better shot than the whities. We should import those Hmongs
and make 'em snipers in the army.
Check your history. It's been done. But maybe you knew that.
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Hey I didn't know that! And I just read on Yahoo that he was a sharpshooter
too! Looks like somebody already thought of my idea.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:44:53 GMT, "Falky foo"
<falkyfoo@bonksbcglobal.net> wrote:
Well, this particular Hmong was apparently a U.S. Army veteran.
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"Falky foo" <falkyfoo@bonksbcglobal.net> wrote
Hey I didn't know that! And I just read on Yahoo that he was a
sharpshooter
too! Looks like somebody already thought of my idea.
You might be more familiar with the tribes as 'montagnards' (sp?)- they're
the aboriginal folk of lower SEAsia. They're roaming cultivators in tribes
led by warlords. They are consummate trackers and warriors- absolutely
fearless and loyal to whomever their chief is loyal to.
For him to initiate hostilities would be out of character, insofar as a
generality. For him to finish off someone who didn't actually come to fight,
kinda predictable.
Chas
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The (deceased and wounded) victims violated some basic rules:
Niven's First Law:
"Never throw #@($ at a man with a gun."
Niven's Second Law:
"Never stand next to someone who is throwing #@($ at a man with a
gun."
<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Larry_Niven>
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On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:27:08 -0600, qbeck <qbeck@net.com> wrote:
The (deceased and wounded) victims violated some basic rules:
Niven's First Law:
"Never throw #@($ at a man with a gun."
Niven's Second Law:
"Never stand next to someone who is throwing #@($ at a man with a
gun."
Game wardens regularly throw "#@($" at men with guns. Even arrest
them, hand out citations, take their property, and so forth. and.
nothing happens.
PHP
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"Peter H Proctor" <drp@drproctor.com> wrote
Game wardens regularly throw "#@($" at men with guns. Even arrest
them, hand out citations, take their property, and so forth. and.
nothing happens.
Until they bother someone like Claude Dallas.
That's why game wardens carry guns now.
Chas
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That's interesting stuff.
"Falky foo" <falkyfoo@bonksbcglobal.net> wrote
You might be more familiar with the tribes as 'montagnards' (sp?)- they're
the aboriginal folk of lower SEAsia. They're roaming cultivators in tribes
led by warlords. They are consummate trackers and warriors- absolutely
fearless and loyal to whomever their chief is loyal to.
For him to initiate hostilities would be out of character, insofar as a
generality. For him to finish off someone who didn't actually come to
fight,
kinda predictable.
Chas
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Game wardens regularly throw "#@($" at men with guns. Even arrest
them, hand out citations, take their property, and so forth. and.
nothing happens.
He'd be dead before the #@($ hit me.
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:04:22 -0800, "Andrew" <sde@oppo.com> wrote:
He'd be dead before the #@($ hit me.
Uh, did you just imply that you would use deadly force against a game
warden ? George W. Bush, while governor of Texas, got a citation
for shooting a killdeer.
PHP
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In article <pgaiq092oit3io8u0ajl2fgue01qvdhu97@4ax.com>, Peter H.
Proctor <drp@drproctor.com> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:04:22 -0800, "Andrew" <sde@oppo.com> wrote:
Uh, did you just imply that you would use deadly force against a game
warden ? George W. Bush, while governor of Texas, got a citation
for shooting a killdeer.
I'm not a big fan of either cops or authority, but if I were in the
woods and a uniformed park ranger/game warden approached me, shooting
at him would be way, way down on my list of things to do. Unless I were
a fugitive, I would know that about the most he could possibly do to me
is to give me some kind of ticket or citation.
Approaching a little VC guy with an SKS in the woods, especially on my
own property, I'd be looking at him real closely...
--Tim May
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:33:43 -0600, Peter H. Proctor <drp@drproctor.com>
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:04:22 -0800, "Andrew" <sde@oppo.com> wrote:
Uh, did you just imply that you would use deadly force against a game
warden ? George W. Bush, while governor of Texas, got a citation
for shooting a killdeer.
Was he governor yet? It was while he was campaigning. I think he was
running against the incumbent Richards at the time.
It's a wonder he's not earned the nick-name "Quick-Draw".
--
There's no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday
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He'd be dead before the #@($ hit me.
AND..don't forget the millions of tax dollars spent to "relocate" Hmongs
across America!
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:23:35 -0700, Mike Z. Helm <mhelm@not.known>
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:33:43 -0600, Peter H. Proctor <drp@drproctor.com>
George W. Bush, while governor of Texas, got a citation
for shooting a killdeer.
Was he governor yet? It was while he was campaigning. I think he was
running against the incumbent Richards at the time.
No, he was already governor, and on the governors traditional opening
day dove hunt.... It is actually a fairly easy mistake to make. Both
birds are gray and about the same size. IIRC, it cost him a $140
or so fine.
PHP
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qbeck <qbeck@net.com> wrote in message news:<l9meq09vr9nbh8e061p7e3fmfvk4mftdnj@4ax.com>...
The (deceased and wounded) victims violated some basic rules:
Niven's First Law:
"Never throw #@($ at a man with a gun."
Niven's Second Law:
"Never stand next to someone who is throwing #@($ at a man with a
gun."
<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Larry_Niven>
Also "Don't get in a gun fight after downing 3 six-packs of bud"
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