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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MC5NO0.html
Nov 30, 1:58 PM (ET)By TOBY STERLING
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Raising the stakes in an excruciating
ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to
permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of
terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has
already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and
reporting them to the government.
The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came
amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia
on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to
end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia
opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.
(snip)
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Laura,
I never kill file anyone. I like to hear the cacophony and the noise of the
NG's. It amuses me. But I must admit that you tempt me to break that rule.
Your posts are the most annoying, shrill, dopey, shrieking unimportant ones
that I have to wade through.
Are you in a mental facility? Are you a deranged shut-in? Are you a
terminally ill person that is lashing out at the world? I'm honestly
curious. You have the stench of insanity about you.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MC5NO0.html
Nov 30, 1:58 PM (ET)By TOBY STERLING
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Raising the stakes in an excruciating
ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to
permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of
terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has
already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and
reporting them to the government.
The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came
amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia
on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to
end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia
opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.
(snip)
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Laura Bush murdered her boy friend opined thusly on Nov 30:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MC5NO0.html
Nov 30, 1:58 PM (ET)By TOBY STERLING
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Raising the stakes in an excruciating
ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to
permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of
terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has
already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and
reporting them to the government.
The Dutch have become morons -- the new freakin' Nazis. I reckon the bodies
will be harvested for use in what pass for medical schools there (hint: the
Dean's name is Igor).
--
Scott
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In article <1xco0msfadryc$.dlg@marquardts.org>, Scott Marquardt
<wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend opined thusly on Nov 30:
The Dutch have become morons -- the new freakin' Nazis. I reckon the bodies
will be harvested for use in what pass for medical schools there (hint: the
Dean's name is Igor).
With their "open immigration" policies, and with a lot of blonde Dutch
women "hooking up" with Africans, Arabs, and Gypsies, the glut of
colored babies has become unsustainable.
This is why they now are liquidating the untermenschen litters.
--Tim May
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On 30 Nov 2004 21:15:54 -0800 in the fey dale of alt.true-crime, Laura
Bush murdered her boy friend defied the status quo and scrawled upon the
toilet stall:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MC5NO0.html
Nov 30, 1:58 PM (ET)By TOBY STERLING
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Raising the stakes in an excruciating
ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to
permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of
terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has
already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and
reporting them to the government.
The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came
amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia
on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to
end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia
opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.
(snip)
I'm in favor of assisted suicide at least, though I'm not sure what I
think wrt those who are incompetent to decide on their own. But it's
really rather a stretch to use "natural evolution" as a defense.
Everything is "natural evolution" - someone gets hit by a bus because
they didn't look before stepping out onto the curb, or someone is
"exterminated" because they don't have blond hair and blue eyes... There
could be any number of legitimate reason to euthanize the incompetent,
but "natural evolution" isn't one of them. :-\
Speaking of euthanizing the incompetent, I gotta' get to work. Buhbye...
--
L8r,
Uncle Dollar Bill
/:\./\-*\/#\-/\:.\/~\*/\-#\/:\./\*-\/~\#/\:.\/-\*/
You can't disguise hatred just by calling it love.
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Netherlands is buying into a cult of death. It's interesting that
Germany, which has a real history with euthanasia of "life unworthy of
life", has firmly rejected such moves.
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Netherlands is buying into a cult of death.
Actually, the Netherlands is tackling a number of societal problems in a
straightforward, libertarian fashion.
Euthanasia, gay rights, legalization of soft drugs, etc.
"The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team
and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no
prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best.
Examples include extremely premature births, where children suffer brain
damage from bleeding and convulsions; and diseases where a child could only
survive on life support for the rest of its life such as spina bifida and
epidermosis bullosa, a blistering illness.
The hospital said it carried out four such mercy killings in 2003, and
reported all cases to government prosecutors - but there have been no legal
proceedings taken against them."
[...]
While there's plenty of gray areas to slip down the slopes, those particular
guidelines don't seem to be unreasonable.
Why should society's scarce resources-or, in the private sector, insurance
premiums-be used in hopelessly prolonging life that lacks quality?
LC~ Thinks it's time medical ethics catches up to medical technology.
"Politics is the art of controlling your environment"- Dr. Hunter S.
Thompson
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"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.1c17844017234a219896b8@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
On 30 Nov 2004 21:15:54 -0800 in the fey dale of alt.true-crime, Laura
Bush murdered her boy friend defied the status quo and scrawled upon the
toilet stall:
I'm in favor of assisted suicide at least, though I'm not sure what I
think wrt those who are incompetent to decide on their own.
Hospitals across the world already routinely stop lifesupport
at the request of the family, after a certain time, etc.
I think stopping life support here is being confused with
"euthanasia", which has to be voluntary (and verified through
multiple sources) to be legal.
But it's really rather a stretch to use "natural evolution" as a defense.
With "natural evolution" they mean "thin end of the wedge",
a "slippery slope" toward all out involuntary euthanasia.
I admit it is disconcerting to hear evangelicals use
the word evolution.
Alex
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Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend opined thusly on Nov 30:
The Dutch have become morons -- the new freakin' Nazis. I reckon the bodies
will be harvested for use in what pass for medical schools there (hint: the
Dean's name is Igor).
And how much are YOU willing to spend in order to keep an infant alive
for another couple of days? Intensive-care costs about $1000/hour.
Two extra days would run $50,000.
Are you willing to pay the bill?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Netherlands is buying into a cult of death.
Did they kill 100,000 Iraqis?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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"Krusty" wrote
">Laura,
I never kill file anyone. I like to hear the cacophony and the noise of the
NG's. It amuses me. But I must admit that you tempt me to break that rule. Your
posts are the most annoying, shrill, dopey, shrieking unimportant ones that I
have to wade through.
Are you in a mental facility? Are you a deranged shut-in? Are you a terminally
ill person that is lashing out at the world? I'm honestly curious. You have the
stench of insanity about you."
Man.... that was just *beautiful*. Ever consider doing Hallmark cards ??? <g>
-----
have a GREAT day !!!!!
Solar
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Ray Fischer opined thusly on Dec 2:
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
And how much are YOU willing to spend in order to keep an infant alive
for another couple of days? Intensive-care costs about $1000/hour.
Two extra days would run $50,000.
Are you willing to pay the bill?
It's obviously a very tough question. I wouldn't pretend otherwise. But it
also points out just how stark the choice is -- turn a corner and embrace
involuntary euthanasia, or perpetuate the medical traditions of the past.
On the other hand, I think you're exaggerating. Palliative care for those
known to be dying is not administered in an intensive care ward. Hospice
care is far less expensive. Right?
--
Scott
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Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net> wrote in
news:41b71d69.4730572@bart.spawar.mil:
In Message-ID:<MPG.1c17844017234a219896b8@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>
posted on Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:33:59 -0800, Uncle Dollar Bill wrote:
Begin
Why is it considered "natural" when other animals selectively thin
their species, such as happens when their are too many cubs, yet when
human animals decide to suspend extraordinary artificial life support
measures for a terminal member of their species, it's considered
"unnatural"?
Why is it consider natural when animals build homes, yet a housing complex
is seen as unnatural?
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rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:comfml$tes$1@bolt.sonic.net:
magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Did they kill 100,000 Iraqis?
No, they only kill those who can't fight back.
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Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer opined thusly on Dec 2:
It's obviously a very tough question. I wouldn't pretend otherwise. But it
also points out just how stark the choice is -- turn a corner and embrace
involuntary euthanasia, or perpetuate the medical traditions of the past.
This "invonluntary" euthanasia involves infants who are in pain, will
die soon, and aren't capable of offering an informed decision.
On the other hand, I think you're exaggerating.
I'm not.
Palliative care for those
known to be dying is not administered in an intensive care ward.
It depends entirely upon how badly you want to extend the life of the
infant. You can ignore it and let it die in pain. You can try to
extend its life and spend a lot of money. You can give it the drugs
which will ends its life and suffering.
Fortunately for me it's not a choice I've ever had to make.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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Ray Fischer opined thusly on Dec 2:
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
This "invonluntary" euthanasia
Why the quote around "involuntary"? Can you explain that, please?
involves infants who are in pain, will
die soon, and aren't capable of offering an informed decision.
(well that last only makes your use of quotes all the more mysterious then,
doesn't it?)
On the other hand, I think you're exaggerating.
I'm not.
It depends entirely upon how badly you want to extend the life of the
infant.
Yes, of course. But you've said that these infants "will die soon." When
people "will die soon," they're generally moved to hospice.
You can ignore it and let it die in pain.
I don't believe I'm having this conversation with someone who so obviously
needs to use a dictionary to learn the meaning of "palliative," and who so
obviously hasn't done so yet.
You can try to
extend its life and spend a lot of money. You can give it the drugs
which will ends its life and suffering.
Fortunately for me it's not a choice I've ever had to make.
Obviously. If you were familiar with the realities of hospice, you'd know
that involuntary euthanasia for infants is not in the least necessary. The
only reason its in the news is that in at least one frightening country,
its possible. What's possible will invariably be done by someone,
regardless of the ethical rubicons crossed.
--
Scott
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Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer opined thusly on Dec 2:
Yes, of course. But you've said that these infants "will die soon." When
people "will die soon," they're generally moved to hospice.
Hospices aren't set up for infants.
You can ignore it and let it die in pain.
You can try to
extend its life and spend a lot of money. You can give it the drugs
which will ends its life and suffering.
Fortunately for me it's not a choice I've ever had to make.
Obviously. If you were familiar with the realities of hospice, you'd know
that involuntary euthanasia for infants is not in the least necessary.
Ending suffering is never "necessary".
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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Ray Fischer opined thusly on Dec 4:
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hospices aren't set up for infants.
LOL
Freakin' brilliant! Here's the Dutch medical mind in action: "Gee, we don't
have any hospices for these infants. Let's just kill them!"
As it is, you're grossly uninformed:
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22pediatric+hospice%22&spell=1
You can ignore it and let it die in pain.
You can try to
extend its life and spend a lot of money. You can give it the drugs
which will ends its life and suffering.
Fortunately for me it's not a choice I've ever had to make.
Obviously. If you were familiar with the realities of hospice, you'd know
that involuntary euthanasia for infants is not in the least necessary.
Ending suffering is never "necessary".
Fascinating that the Dutch think so.
--
Scott
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xeton2001@yahoo.com (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend) wrote in message news:<780ea958.0411302115.6679f68a@posting.google.com>...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MC5NO0.html
Nov 30, 1:58 PM (ET)By TOBY STERLING
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Raising the stakes in an excruciating
ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to
permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of
terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has
already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and
reporting them to the government.
The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came
amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia
on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to
end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia
opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.
(snip)
------------------------------------------
Are you hoping they will involuntarily euthanize Jews?
Michael
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rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<comfl3$tch$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
And how much are YOU willing to spend in order to keep an infant alive
for another couple of days? Intensive-care costs about $1000/hour.
Two extra days would run $50,000.
In that case, the infant will die because no one wants to pay the
bill. No need for doctors to hasten the process by poisoning the
infant.
Michael
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rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cooofl$tsh$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
This "invonluntary" euthanasia involves infants who are in pain, will
die soon, and aren't capable of offering an informed decision.
Fine, keep them sedated until death.
But do NOT hasten the death of such a person without their consent.
I'm not.
It depends entirely upon how badly you want to extend the life of the
infant. You can ignore it and let it die in pain. You can try to
extend its life and spend a lot of money. You can give it the drugs
which will ends its life and suffering.
Or you can give it drugs to numb the pain until natural death.
Michael
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rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<corp66$imq$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Scott Marquardt <wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hospices aren't set up for infants.
Are you implying that there is no hospice in the entire world that
caters to fatally ill infants?
Michael
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"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFE@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message news:<41ae6325$0$12134$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>...
"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.1c17844017234a219896b8@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Hospitals across the world already routinely stop lifesupport
at the request of the family, after a certain time, etc.
I think stopping life support here is being confused with
"euthanasia", which has to be voluntary (and verified through
multiple sources) to be legal.
In the Netherlands, euthanasia can be done involuntarily.
Michael
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Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<comfl3$tch$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
In that case, the infant will die because no one wants to pay the
bill.
Just as a fetus dies when nobody wants to provide the use of their
body.
No need for doctors to hasten the process by poisoning the
infant.
What do you care? Do you _want_ it to die in pain?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cooofl$tsh$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Fine, keep them sedated until death.
That's what they're doing.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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