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Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Many thanks in advance.
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In article <9b703cc2.0412011018.6987083f@posting.google.com>,
dude_7526@yahoo.com says...
Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Best bet is to look up the law and see what it says. It could be you
didn't break the law.
--------------
Alex
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Larry Jhonson wrote:
Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Many thanks in advance.
Many states have that law. Ohio has had it ever since I could drive. That
was back in the '60's.
It's basically to keep people from turning a private business into a
thoroughfare.
Just because it's there, doesn't mean you can use it to avoid a light.
Question is, did the cop actually see you enter the business property and
not stop?
If he can show he can clearly see you at all times, that you did not stop
and do business with the business, then he can legally cite you.
I do not believe you would win the case.
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I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
This sort of manuever (using private property to avoid a traffic control
device) is illegal in many states, including my home state of Oklahoma
(where we call it a "Boston turn" for some unknown reason). Sure, you can go
to court, but your chances of actually winning are not good. Your second
strategy is probably your best bet (plead guilty and beg for mercy).
--
John Goulden
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On 1 Dec 2004 10:18:50 -0800, dude_7526@yahoo.com (Larry Jhonson)
wrote:
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket?
You can fight any ticket.
If I so, what are the chances
that I can win.
Nearly zero. From your own description, you are guilty as charged.
Follow whatever procedure your state uses to request traffic school.
--
Sloth Kills!
http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/
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dude_7526@yahoo.com (Larry Jhonson) wrote in message news:<9b703cc2.0412011018.6987083f@posting.google.com>...
Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Many thanks in advance.
It sounds like you did exactly what the law prohibits and you have no
excuse. It also sounds like local law enforcement is aware of the
situation at this intersection and is using it to nail people who do
just what you did.
It's a 2-point offense in New Jersey (where 6 points in 3 years earns
you a mandatory insurance surcharge). It also keeps those other points
on your record for another year (in NJ, 3 points come off for every
year with no violations).
If it means a lot to you, you should consult a lawyer in New Jersey. A
lawyer may be able to negotiate something better than a slam-dunk
conviction.
--
Not a lawyer,
Chris Green
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Thanks John and Alex for your response.
I went to the court today (as mentioned on the ticket), prosecutor
first asked me if I am willing to plead guilty and pay the fine to
which I said, yes provided if that doesn't affect my driving record.
His answer was that, he cannot do that in the absence of Cop(who gave
me the ticket), so he recommended the Judge to set a Trial, which
Judge did and said approximately it could be after a month.
I heard that there are chances that Cop may not show up for trial, but
what if he does show up? Could there be a possibility that Cop would
agree to what I propose? Meaning by paying the fine (I am even ready
to pay the double fine, upto $150) and not impose any points to my
Driving record.
Thanks much again.
"John D. Goulden" <jgoulden_news@goulden.org> wrote in message news:<col64p02b40@news4.newsguy.com>...
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
This sort of manuever (using private property to avoid a traffic control
device) is illegal in many states, including my home state of Oklahoma
(where we call it a "Boston turn" for some unknown reason). Sure, you can go
to court, but your chances of actually winning are not good. Your second
strategy is probably your best bet (plead guilty and beg for mercy).
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"Christopher Green" <cj.green@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >>
It sounds like you did exactly what the law prohibits and you have no
excuse.
It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his mind.
And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn around.
INNOCENT. -Dave
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On 1 Dec 2004 10:18:50 -0800, dude_7526@yahoo.com (Larry Jhonson)
wrote:
Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket?
Sure, just like any ticket.
If I so, what are the chances
that I can win.
Depends on what kind of defense you can put up in court.
Given what you wrote above, though, you did what you were ticketed
for, your surprise seems to be because you didn't know there is a law
against it.
If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004) and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
Depends on your particular court system. Maybe seeing a lawyer would
be a good thing.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Many thanks in advance.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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"Christopher Green" <cj.green@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >>
It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his
mind.
And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn around.
INNOCENT. -Dave
Sounds like "reasonable doubt," to me. Of course, I highly doubt that
the revenue machine that is traffic enforcement would ever dare hold
itself to such a high standard...
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"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in news:31771vF31r933U1@individual.net:
"Christopher Green" <cj.green@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >>
It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his
mind. And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn
around. INNOCENT. -Dave
Yup... not his fault the store was busy and he didn't want to wait in line.
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Larry Jhonson wrote:
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
Zero chance of a win if you admit the offense in court (as you already
did here).
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Dave C. wrote:
It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his mind.
And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn around.
INNOCENT. -Dave
It sounds to me like your suggesting perjury, since he's already
admitted the offense here. I guess lying under oath is always an
option, if you have no scruples.
But be forewarned, a lot of people are really bad liars and judges
tend to be well-honed lie detectors from years of experience.
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In article <9b703cc2.0412011637.3d1287c@posting.google.com>,
dude_7526@yahoo.com says...
Thanks John and Alex for your response.
I went to the court today (as mentioned on the ticket), prosecutor
first asked me if I am willing to plead guilty and pay the fine to
which I said, yes provided if that doesn't affect my driving record.
His answer was that, he cannot do that in the absence of Cop(who gave
me the ticket), so he recommended the Judge to set a Trial, which
Judge did and said approximately it could be after a month.
I heard that there are chances that Cop may not show up for trial, but
what if he does show up? Could there be a possibility that Cop would
agree to what I propose? Meaning by paying the fine (I am even ready
to pay the double fine, upto $150) and not impose any points to my
Driving record.
There is a possibility the cop won't show. What you would have to do is
see if he will change the charge to something that does not carry points.
Maybe an equipment violation? You would have to discuss that with him.
I'm sure your attitude during the incident will influence his decision.
If you were respectful towards him, he probably would agree to it. If
the cop does not show up, insist on getting the charge dismissed. That
would be the second time you waste time going to court.
-------------
Alex
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On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:52:14 -0500, Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu>
wrote:
There is a possibility the cop won't show. What you would have to do is
see if he will change the charge to something that does not carry points.
Maybe an equipment violation? You would have to discuss that with him.
I'm sure your attitude during the incident will influence his decision.
If you were respectful towards him, he probably would agree to it.
Maybe some cops, but I'm always respectful to cops and sometimes they
just have something stuck up their ass.
However, being disrespectful to them will make most cops not give an
inch.
If
the cop does not show up, insist on getting the charge dismissed. That
would be the second time you waste time going to court.
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On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:30:41 -0600, "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001>
wrote:
Many states have that law. Ohio has had it ever since I could drive. That
was back in the '60's.
It's basically to keep people from turning a private business into a
thoroughfare.
Just because it's there, doesn't mean you can use it to avoid a light.
Yeah, I know Texas has this law too.
You can still sometimes get away with using parking lots as
thoroughfares though.
I once found myself stuck in traffic because there was about an 8th
inch of snow on the ground. I turned into a very long strip mall,
cruised through it at breakneck speed, exitted the strip mall (without
having passed any lights or stop signs) and got back in traffic.
It sucks when it snows where people hardly ever see snow.
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On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:23:14 -0500, "Paul"
<Don't_Blame_Me@I_Didn't_Vote_For_Him.Com> wrote:
mind.
Sounds like "reasonable doubt," to me. Of course, I highly doubt that
the revenue machine that is traffic enforcement would ever dare hold
itself to such a high standard...
If this is a civil matter instead of criminal, preponderance of
evidence is the criteria, not reasonable doubt.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his
mind.
And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn around.
INNOCENT. -Dave
Sounds like "reasonable doubt," to me. Of course, I highly doubt that
the revenue machine that is traffic enforcement would ever dare hold
itself to such a high standard...
If this is a civil matter instead of criminal, preponderance of
evidence is the criteria, not reasonable doubt.
--
Well in that case, he'd still be INNOCENT. -Dave
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On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:52:39 -0500, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
It sounds to me like he was going to go shopping, but then changed his
mind.
And it was easier to exit by the rear entrance than to turn around.
INNOCENT. -Dave
Sounds like "reasonable doubt," to me. Of course, I highly doubt that
the revenue machine that is traffic enforcement would ever dare hold
itself to such a high standard...
If this is a civil matter instead of criminal, preponderance of
evidence is the criteria, not reasonable doubt.
--
Well in that case, he'd still be INNOCENT. -Dave
Reasonable doubt is reasonable doubt in the mind of the judge, not of
us kibitzers.
A judge who has seen hundreds of these cases and is well aware that
law enforcement is attempting to suppress this problem at this
particular intersection will not doubt an officer who testifies that
he saw the OP drive right through the lot at a time when the
intersection was badly backed up.
And we all know he's not innocent, it's just a question of whether his
guilt can be proven to the point that a judge will accept it.
--
Chris Green
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Larry Jhonson wrote:
Hello folks,
I need your advise on the ticket that I received recently. I was on
my
way to work in the morning rush hour and the traffic was backed up so
badly on RT130.
It was almost talking 10 mins to cross each traffic light, and since
it was getting late to work I pulled into a drive way of a store on
the right and exited from the back of that store(there by avoided the
signal ahead which could've taken another 5 mins) and there was a
Cop,
who was hiding there pulled me over as soon as I exited and handed me
the ticket.
The citation shows that
39:4-66.2 Driving on public or private property to avoid a traffic
sign or signal
He assumes you were avoiding traffic. Maybe you were going to go
into the store, then changed your mind. He is not a mind reader.
I would get a jury trial.
=
My question is, can I fight this ticket? If I so, what are the
chances
that I can win. If not, can I plead guilty by paying the fine and ask
the Judge/Prosecutor to not assess any points to my driving record? I
already have 2 points for speeding in PA ( received in April 2004)
and
didn't receive any Motor vehicle voilations in New Jersey ever.
I greatly appreciate if someone can point what chances do I have.
Many thanks in advance.
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He assumes you were avoiding traffic. Maybe you were going to go
into the store, then changed your mind. He is not a mind reader.
I would get a jury trial.
"Well, Your Honor, I was going to stop at the <place of business> when I
realized I forgot <*> and exited the business parking lot to return home
to <**>. "
<*>: ..when I realized I forgot: (select one)
My: cellphone, cash, credit cards, rewards card for store, briefcase
To: let the dog out, feed the dog, lock my front door...
<**>: The action to be taken to rectify the situation
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Paul wrote:
"Well, Your Honor, I was going to stop at the <place of business>
when I
realized I forgot <*> and exited the business parking lot to return
home
to <**>. "
<*>: ..when I realized I forgot: (select one)
My: cellphone, cash, credit cards, rewards card for store, briefcase
To: let the dog out, feed the dog, lock my front door...
<**>: The action to be taken to rectify the situation
-----
Whether the officer appears that day is probably a matter of logistics.
If he has other cases in which to testify, he'll probably show. If not,
he might not... depending on how serious the city is in enforcing that
particular offense and/or the number of officers needed on-duty that
day. Pray for a snow storm.
-> "I went to the court today (as mentioned on the ticket), prosecutor
first asked me if I am willing to plead guilty and pay the fine to
which I said, yes provided if that doesn't affect my driving record.
His answer was that, he cannot do that in the absence of Cop(who gave
me the ticket)..."
If you're attitude when you received the citation was congenial you
might get some consideration. Plead your case (honestly) [*if* you can
get a meeting with prosecutor and officer- doubtful] as much as
possible before trial.
Good luck.- gpsman
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Larry Jhonson wrote:
my
Cop,
He assumes you were avoiding traffic. Maybe you were going to go
into the store, then changed your mind. He is not a mind reader.
I would get a jury trial.
=
He was obviously pretty good at reading minds since the OP clearly states
that he was doing exactly what the cop cited him for.
--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.
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"Paul" <Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend is a moron@moron.us> wrote:
"Well, Your Honor, I was going to stop at the <place of business> when I realized I forgot <*> and exited the business parking lot to return home to <**>. " <*>: ..when I realized I forgot: (select one) My: cellphone, cash, credit cards, rewards card for store, briefcase To: let the dog out, feed the dog, lock my front door... <**>: The action to be taken to rectify the situation
Honesty is never a good policy for assholes.
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Alex Rodriguez wrote:
In article <9b703cc2.0412011637.3d1287c@posting.google.com>,
dude_7526@yahoo.com says...
There is a possibility the cop won't show. What you would have to do
is
see if he will change the charge to something that does not carry
points.
Maybe an equipment violation?
More likely something related to what actually happened. I have
personally (for a client) pleaded such a charge down to a 'parking on
the sidewalk' violation. That way, the fine/forfeiture can be pretty
hefty, but there are no points assessed for most, if not all, parking
violations. All you need to do is stipulate that you stopped (if only
for an instant) on the sidewalk. If there are no sidewalks, maybe
'blocking a driveway' will work.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
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Alex Rodriguez wrote:
is
points.
More likely something related to what actually happened. I have
personally (for a client) pleaded such a charge down to a 'parking on
the sidewalk' violation. That way, the fine/forfeiture can be pretty
hefty, but there are no points assessed for most, if not all, parking
violations. All you need to do is stipulate that you stopped (if only
for an instant) on the sidewalk. If there are no sidewalks, maybe
'blocking a driveway' will work.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
I've been following this thread for several days and it seems that something
is being missed. Whether the ticket can be made to stick, or whether it
can be successfully fought is really beside the point.
The original poster cut thru a parking lot to beat "traffic". But who IS
that traffic? That traffic is other road users who are in as much of a
hurry to get where they're going as the original poster (OP). That traffic
is you and me. Basically he jumped the line. He saved time, but that time
was paid for by everyone else who followed the rules and waited their turns.
Would we tolerate this in a supermarket checkout line? In an amusement park
line? Why should we tolerate in driving? And isn't that one reason we hire
policemen? To protect us from louts like him?
Seems to me that the proper punishment is to simply hold him by the side of
the road for an hour or two.
Let's make it a general rule: Don't block the line. Don't buck the line.
Paul R
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Seems to me that the proper punishment is to simply hold him by the
side of
the road for an hour or two.
Or charge him with tresspassing if he had no intention of patronizing
the business whose parking lot he crossed...
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