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Free at Last! Free at Last! Bobby Fischer is Free at Last! Wonderful News! Although it has not hit the major newswires yet, it appears that Bobby Fischer is out of jail. The break came when Iceland granted him citizenship two days ago. With this act, Japan no longer had any legal basis to hold him. However, it may not be over yet. The main international airport in Iceland is located on Keflavik Air Base. A NATO Base under US Control. The insane US Policymakers may be just crazy enough to try to catch Bobby Fischer after he steps off the airplane in Keflavik. I doubt that they will do this but my advice is that caution is called for and why not land the airplane at Reykjavik Airport instead. Reykjavik Airport is only used for domestic flights and most foreigners are not even aware of its existence, but it is fully capable of handling the big aircraft that normally lands at Keflavik. While not a victory for Bobby Fischer as he had to spend eight months in jail in Japan completely unnecessarily and will probably have to spend the rest of his life as a fugitive, it is a marginal victory for international law and a great defeat for the Bush administration. It has been clear from the beginning that Bobby Fischer broke no law. The Executive Order that Bobby Fischer allegedly violated by playing a chess match in Yugoslavia for the world chess championship clearly was not applicable for many reasons. The Executive Order prohibited commercial contacts with the Government of Yugoslavia. However, a chess match is not a commercial contact and the sponsor of the chess match was not the government of Yugoslavia but rather was an outspoken opponent of the government. The sponsor of the chess match fled the country soon after the match was over and the bank he owned was closed down and forced into bankruptcy. The case against Fischer was so weak for many reasons that many in his position would have gone back to fight the case feeling confident of victory in court. However, the Bush administration has a record of holding people in prison for years without giving them a fair hearing of any kind and without even informing them of the charges against them, so Fischer was entirely justified in not leaving his fate in the hands of the US Injustice System. Another big looser is Japan. The Japanese will forever be held in low regard by the international community for their behavior in this matter. It is clear that Fischer was being prosecuted as a political matter and under international law such a person is entitled to political asylum. The Japanese Ministry of Interior declared that a deported person must be sent back to his country of origin. Is that the law? Does that mean that refugees from the Communist Government of Afghanistan much be sent back to Afghanistan where they face certain execution. Must Chinese be sent back to China, Burmese back to Burma and Vietnamese back to Vietnam? An opposition leader in Japan has correctly pointed out that by its conduct Japan may have lost its chance to get a seat on the United Nations Security Council. Clearly, a nation that acts as nothing more than an agent for the USA does not deserve a seat on that body. Another big looser is the Executive Board of the United States Chess Federation. Not only did the USCF do nothing to help Bobby Fischer get out of jail, but it even expelled him from the chess federation in violation of the federationfs own rules. While berating the cowardly Japanese for knuckling under to the demands of the great United States, we must applaud Lilliputan Iceland for having the courage to give Fischer sanctuary in defiance of the demands of its neighbor, the Big Bad USA. Sam Sloan http://www.samsloan.com/bobby.htm
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the @$#*en, partly jewish, US policymakers can just step back. The world chess champion, Bobby Fischer, the greatest man on earth, walks out free. free at last, free at last, he is free at last. the intellectual dwarfs from oval office just contemplate their defeat against the truely free world. and their downfall has only just begun.
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"ayx" <use.20.ayxcds@spamgourmet.com> writes:
free at last, free at last, he is free at last.
Is he actually out? He was supposed to be released 10 minutes ago.
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Perverse as it may sound, I favor a martyrdom operation by Special Forces, with a sniper team taking out the target as he steps off the plane. This was done to Benigno S. Aquino, Jr. (1932-1983) by Marcos in the Phillipines. It would make Fischer an instant martyr and he could go into history in a blaze of glory (or out with a bang). I admit this is pretty pornographic, but you have to admit it would gain him lots of sympathy. RL
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"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com>
Sam Sloan http://www.samsloan.com/bobby.htm
Dear Sam, I would greet to you, too, because your web site and texts on it shows Fischer on the right way. Your doings was always to return big chess player in chess world. Everybody is happy because justice won! Democracy won! Tortures, prisons are over! But there are many things to do. It would correct all injustices to Bobby made in last fifteen years. That's the next obligation to all. Somebody would pay compensation for all Bobby's pains, and it would be necessary to give him back all his property. It belongs to him. And I think he would successfully gain back all he lost. Everybody have to remember that bobby is the best chess player ever. So, that's the obligation of all chess players and chess fans of all nationality and religions. That's our human duty! Regards, Goran Tomic
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In article <4241e239.30682687@ca.news.verio.net>, Sam Sloan <sloan@ishipress.com> writes
Free at Last! Free at Last! Bobby Fischer is Free at Last! Wonderful News! Although it has not hit the major newswires yet, it appears that Bobby Fischer is out of jail. The break came when Iceland granted him citizenship two days ago. With this act, Japan no longer had any legal basis to hold him. However, it may not be over yet. The main international airport in Iceland is located on Keflavik Air Base. A NATO Base under US Control. The insane US Policymakers may be just crazy enough to try to catch Bobby Fischer after he steps off the airplane in Keflavik. I doubt that they will do this but my advice is that caution is called for
I have advised caution too. There is no telling what US government gangsters might try,
and why not land the airplane at Reykjavik Airport instead. Reykjavik Airport is only used for domestic flights and most foreigners are not even aware of its existence, but it is fully capable of handling the big aircraft that normally lands at Keflavik.
<snip>
It has been clear from the beginning that Bobby Fischer broke no law. The Executive Order that Bobby Fischer allegedly violated by playing a chess match in Yugoslavia for the world chess championship clearly was not applicable for many reasons. The Executive Order prohibited commercial contacts with the Government of Yugoslavia. However, a chess match is not a commercial contact and the sponsor of the chess match was not the government of Yugoslavia but rather was an outspoken opponent of the government.
That's not the point. US law does not govern what people do in Yugoslavia. -- banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)
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In article <7xd5tpaoqb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <http@?.cx> writes
"ayx" <use.20.ayxcds@spamgourmet.com> writes: Is he actually out? He was supposed to be released 10 minutes ago.
Yes, he's out. He left the detention centre and got into an Icelandic diplomatic car headed for Narita airport. This is running as the top news story in Iceland: <http://www.mbl.is/mm/frettir/> The following is from UK TV network ITV: <http://www.itv.com/news/world_865551.html>: ***BEGIN ARTICLE*** Wanted chess champion heads to Iceland 10.00AM, Thu Mar 24 2005 Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer is heading to Iceland after being released from detention in Japan. It is the end of an eight-month saga that began when Fischer, 62, was taken into custody in Japan last July for travelling on what US officials said was an invalid passport. He could have faced prison and fines in the US, where he is wanted for violating sanctions against the former Yugoslavia by playing a chess match there in 1992. The US has said it is disappointed at Iceland's decision to grant Fischer citizenship and reiterated that it wanted him to be handed over. Fischer sprang to fame when he won the world title in a classic Cold War encounter with Soviet champion Boris Spassky in Iceland in 1972. The chess icon, who had grown a long white beard in custody and wore a dark baseball cap pulled low, was released from a detention centre in Ushiku, northeast of Tokyo, and taken in an Icelandic embassy car to Narita airport. Fischer, clad in a striped sweater and jeans, made typically outrageous statements to reporters. "This was not an arrest, it was a kidnapping," he said when he arrived at the airport. "It was all cooked up between (US President George W) Bush and (Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro) Koizumi. They are war criminals. They should both be hung. "I'm very happy to be leaving," he said later. He added: "Japan is a nice country, but you have a criminal leadership" and charged that Mr Koizumi took all his "orders" from Mr Bush. Fischer's lawyer, Masako Suzuki, said the chess icon had "smiled from the bottom of his heart when he boarded the plane". The chess master used a series of legal moves to fight deportation to the US, including seeking refugee status, renouncing his US citizenship and unveiling plans to marry his companion, Miyoko Watai, a four-time Japan women's chess champion. ***END ARTICLE*** -- banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)
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Please excuse my ignorance. Is Bobby Fischer a jewish himself?
the @$#*en, partly jewish, US policymakers can just step back. The world chess champion, Bobby Fischer, the greatest man on earth, walks out free. free at last, free at last, he is free at last. the intellectual dwarfs from oval office just contemplate their defeat against the truely free world. and their downfall has only just begun.
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:49:47 GMT, "Luke" <ke_lu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance. Is Bobby Fischer a jewish himself?
Not as far as he is concerned. And he does claim to be uncircumcised.
The enemy fight in chains, invisible chains, but heavy; Their minds are fetter'd; then how can they be free, -- William Blake
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:49:47 GMT, "Luke" <ke_lu@yahoo.com> wrote: Not as far as he is concerned. And he does claim to be uncircumcised.
What does that have to do with anything? Millions and millions of Americans and Canadians have been circumcized since the 70's and none of it had anything to do with Judaism. It became common practice in Canada years ago when they thought it was more hygenic. Since then it has fallen out of favour with doctors and has since been delisted as a service for OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance). Still, in 2001 I had my infant son circumcized for $100. He is no more Jewish than I, descended from German-Scottish heritage. Still, I felt it was the best thing for him, probably because I grew up this way.
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"Adrian MacNair" wrote:
What does that have to do with anything?
If you study the holy scriptures you will see that it has everything to do with being a jew. Circumcision (did I spell that right?) is part of the of the deal between God and the Jewish people. You may think this is crazy (well, I do), but by sacrificing not the whole child (like was done now and then in ancient times) but a piece of the tiny penis the father of this young Jew secures the protection of God for his child. If not circumsized you do not belong to the chosen people. Correct me, if I am wrong. HansJ
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In the year of our Lord Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:57:49 -0500, "Adrian MacNair" <amacnairDONT@SPAMsympaticoME.ca> wrote:
What does that have to do with anything?
Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized. But if you want to read this in Fischer's own words, here is a link to a copy of the letter he sent to the Encyclopedia Judaica asking that his name be removed from that publication, as he is not Jewish. http://home.att.ne.jp/moon/fischer/list/p_42/42_0.htm
Millions and millions of Americans and Canadians have been circumcized since the 70's and none of it had anything to do with Judaism. It became common practice in Canada years ago when they thought it was more hygenic. Since then it has fallen out of favour with doctors and has since been delisted as a service for OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance). Still, in 2001 I had my infant son circumcized for $100. He is no more Jewish than I, descended from German-Scottish heritage. Still, I felt it was the best thing for him, probably because I grew up this way.
The enemy fight in chains, invisible chains, but heavy; Their minds are fetter'd; then how can they be free, -- William Blake
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Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized.
As are Muslim men.
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"StanB" wrote:
As are Muslim men.
Superstition and irrational ways are not confined to Judaism; superstition can be found anywhere on this planet. In a way circumcision could be called blasphemous. The work of the Lord is not good enough, so it must be corrected by man. HansJ
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:49:47 GMT, "Luke" <ke_lu@yahoo.com> wrote: Please excuse my ignorance. Is Bobby Fischer a jewish himself? Not as far as he is concerned. And he does claim to be uncircumcised. What does that have to do with anything?
Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized.
Understood. But if I am circumcized does that make me a jew? No. So in todays context it means squat since millions of men who are not jewish were circumcized by doctors from the 70's through the 90's. Back in 1943 when Fischer was born I imagine it was a much bigger deal.
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:48:01 -0500, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote:
As are Muslim men.
Nobody was claiming that Fischer was muslim, now, were they? The fox condemns the trap, not himself. -- William Blake
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:23:34 -0500, "Adrian MacNair" <amacnairDONT@SPAMsympaticoME.ca> wrote:
In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:49:47 GMT, "Luke" <ke_lu@yahoo.com> wrote: Please excuse my ignorance. Is Bobby Fischer a jewish himself? Not as far as he is concerned. And he does claim to be uncircumcised. What does that have to do with anything? Understood. But if I am circumcized does that make me a jew? No. So in todays context it means squat since millions of men who are not jewish were circumcized by doctors from the 70's through the 90's. Back in 1943 when Fischer was born I imagine it was a much bigger deal.
Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized. That other cultures also practice circumcision does not change the fact that Fischer would cite the fact that he is not circumcized to show that he is not Jewish.
Bray a fool in a morter with wheat. yet shall not his folly be beaten out of him. -- William Blake
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:23:34 -0500, "Adrian MacNair"
Understood. But if I am circumcized does that make me a jew? No. So in todays context it means squat since millions of men who are not jewish were circumcized by doctors from the 70's through the 90's. Back in 1943 when Fischer was born I imagine it was a much bigger deal.
I doubt that. I was born in 1944 and was circumcised though none of my known ancestors were Jewish. Back then it was simply normal procedure done for supposedly "hygenic" reasons to virtually everyone unless the parents demurred. Ed Ed Seedhouse, Victoria, B.C.
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:48:01 -0500, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote: Nobody was claiming that Fischer was muslim, now, were they?
And your point is? Let me further educate you to some of the lore behind circumcision. Most Christians are taught that God took a rib from Adam's ribcage and created Eve. Most Jews know that the rib was actually the rib of flesh taken during circumcision.
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:41:02 -0500, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote:
And your point is?
My point was that your comment was off topic. What is now proved was once, only imagin'd. -- William Blake
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Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized. As are Muslim men. Nobody was claiming that Fischer was muslim, now, were they? And your point is?
My point was that your comment was off topic.
Not much of a point.
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In the year of our Lord Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:43:00 -0500, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote:
Jewish males are supposed to be circumcized. As are Muslim men. Nobody was claiming that Fischer was muslim, now, were they? And your point is? Not much of a point.
Well, some of us do prefer that people who respond to our posts actually respond to what we say rather than bringing in extraneous facts that add nothing to the discussion.
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"here is a link to a copy of the letter he sent to the Encyclopedia asking that his name be removed from that publication, as he is not Jewish. " He can call himself what he wants. But ethnically he is half Jewish on his mothers side.
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Luke wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance. Is Bobby Fischer a jewish himself?
(... Jewish...) No, not at all. Only both of his parents were. (Of course for Nazists he would be Jewish. Since Fischer himself is a neoNazist, neoNazists quite hypocritically, support this son of Jews all the way, grateful for Fischer's hateful, degenerated statements). Wlod
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In the year of our Lord 25 Mar 2005 23:16:26 -0800, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)" <sennajawa@yahoo.com> wrote:
Luke wrote: (... Jewish...) No, not at all. Only both of his parents were.
Was his father? I must admit that I've never really heard anything at all about Fischer's father.
(Of course for Nazists he would be Jewish. Since Fischer himself is a neoNazist, neoNazists quite hypocritically, support this son of Jews all the way, grateful for Fischer's hateful, degenerated statements).
I don't think that Fischer can be called a neo-Nazi. That requires a bit more than bigotry.
Wlod
The enemy fight in chains, invisible chains, but heavy; Their minds are fetter'd; then how can they be free, -- William Blake
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thereactionary@mindspring.com wrote in news:1111806517.574218.188720 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
"here is a link to a copy of the letter he sent to the Encyclopedia asking that his name be removed from that publication, as he is not Jewish. " He can call himself what he wants. But ethnically he is half Jewish on his mothers side.
The question of whether Fischer is Jewish may not be as simple as it appears on the surface. Take a look at the following piece from "Matrilineality," http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/matrilineage You will notice that Reform Judaism adopted a bilineal, rather than a matrilineal, policy. I suspect that Fischer comes from a Reform rather than an Orthodox background, hence his insistence that he is not Jewish. Judaism Orthodox Judaism states that, to be a Jew, one must be either a proselyte or the child of a Jewish mother. This ruling is based on the fact that intercourse between Jews and non-Jews is forbidden, and any offspring resulting from such an act is considered to have no paternity. It is not mentioned directly in the Bible, but derives from the Oral law (Mishnah tractate Kiddushin 3:12). The Talmudic commentary finds scriptural proof from various verses in the Torah and the rest of Tanakh (the Jewish Bible). Historians have cast doubt on the claim that Judaism has always been matrilineal. Indeed, there are several instances in the Bible where Jewish men marry gentile women without direct mention of the women converting. (The standard view among historians seems to be that the very notion of conversion with a mikveh is postbiblical.) Apparently the offspring of such unions was considered to be Jewish; the Book of Ruth claims such ancestry for King David himself; however, the Talmud (Yevamoth 47b) asserts that Ruth was a convert to Judaism, and derives the laws of proselytes from the exchange between Naomi and Ruth. Flavius Josephus refers to marriages between Jewish men and Gentile women without much commentary, and seems to assume that the offspring is Jewish (or, according to one of his statements, "half-Jewish") (Antiquities of the Jews 16.225, 18.109, 18.139, 18.141, 14.8-10, 14.121, 14.403); as is usual in prerabbinic texts, there is no mention of conversion on the part of the Gentile spouse. On the other hand, Philo of Alexandria calls the child of a Jew and a non-Jew a nothos (bastard), regardless of whether the non-Jewish parent is the father or the mother (On the Life of Moses 2.36.193, On the Virtues 40.224, On the Life of Moses 1.27.147). The view of matrilineal descent as originating at the time of Yavneh is openly held by scholars affiliated with the Conservative movement. At the same time, matrilineal descent is the norm in Conservative halakha; if a Conservative synagogue accepts patrilineal descent ritually, it is generally expelled from the movement. On the other hand, polls conducted by the Conservative movement show that 68% of all regular attendants to Conservative synagogues support patrilineal descent. Reform Judaism in the U.S. officially adopted a bilineal policy in 1983: one is a Jew if either of one's parents is Jewish, provided that either (a) one is raised as a Jew, by Reform standards, or (b) one engages in an appropriate act of public identification. This declaration formalized what had been Reform policy in practice for at least a generation. Clause (b) has been generally interpreted as making any form of public self- identification sufficient, though some congregations may make more formal requirements - especially if the individual in question has been raised as a Christian. Other movements within the World Union for Progressive Judaism have adopted essentially the same position as U.S. Reform Judaism. These include: Liberal Judaism in England; Reconstructionist Judaism in the US, Canada and elsewhere; Progressive Judaism in Australia; one congregation in Austria; some congregations in Eastern Europe. Note that Reform Judaism in Canada and England adopts a different position, closer to the Orthodox one, at least in some congregations. Many secular and non-religious Jews in America, Israel and elsewhere adopt a bilineal view similar to that detailed above. In Israel, the status quo is that the Orthodox definition is followed: the child of a Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother may immigrate to Israel (and may claim rights under the Law of Return), but will be registered in official documents as a non-Jew. The consequences are various: he/she may not be wedded inside the state to anybody considered to be officially a Jew, and he/she may not be buried in a military cemetery if he/she dies in battle. Priesthood in Judaism (Kohen status) is inherited patrilineally; the same applies to membership of the tribes (e.g. Levi) and royalty (Davidic line).
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ayx wrote:
the @$#*en, partly jewish, US policymakers [...]
Isn't it ironic how all these degenerated neoNazists (like coward ayx), who hate Jews so much, unite behind the poor and crazy son of two Jews. Finally they have a leader again :-) Wlod
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"here is a link to a copy of the letter he sent to the Encyclopedia asking that his name be removed from that publication, as he is not Jewish. " He can call himself what he wants. But ethnically he is half Jewish on his mothers side.
I don't know what an ethnic jew is. That is the fallacy of what happened during the murder of the halocaust. How can you execute on suspicion of Jewish blood? It's bull#@($. Religion is a poison of the mind, not the blood.
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"Adrian MacNair" wrote:
Jewish blood? It's bull#@($. Religion is a poison of the mind, not the blood.
One of many poisons, yes. It is incredible what religious people have committed of crimes during history. Just in America: Destroying the lives of the proud Red Indians and keeping black people in slavery. Then off to church on sundays, and everything is fine. Now Bush has a new religion called democracy and like earlier missionaries he will see to it that people get democracy the American way whether they want it or not. And behind these fine words of freedom we all know lies just one thing: The dream of American supreme power over the whole world. There was a guy some 60-70 years ago who had a similar dream; Adolf Hitler was his name. HansJ
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thereactionary@mindspring.com wrote:
"here is a link to a copy of the letter he sent to the Encyclopedia asking that his name be removed from that publication, as he is not Jewish. " He can call himself what he wants. But ethnically he is half Jewish on his mothers side.
It seems that according to the FBI files of his mother, his father was also "Jewish". I include in quotation marks because the issue is not so simple. Most Jews today are not descendants of the ancient Jews, but of the descendants of the Turkish Khazars, who adopted Judaism in medieval times. See for example Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe" or the Britannica article (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry?id=25829). The myth that modern Jews are descendants of the ancient ones of course was indispensable for the Nazi ideology and very useful as a justification for the colonization of Palestine. I think that it is correct say that the modern Jews share the same culture. I don't know, though, what is Fischer's rationale, though. It all depends of your definition of who is a Jew. If a Jew is someone who at least pays lip service to Judaism, and who is a Sephardic Jew (from Mediterranean ancestry), than Fischer was not a Jew. I don't know Encyclopedia Judaica's definition... Regards, Eustace -- It Ain't THAT, babe! A radical reinterpretation http://www.geocities.com/itaintme_babe/itaintme.html
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Cut the Bobby crap already. Bobby Fischer has been letting down American chess players since he walked out of the Interzonal at Sousse in 1967. He almost broke our hearts in 1972 and finally did in 1975. He will let down his new country as well. He's insane and will never play again.
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:23:34 -0500, "Adrian MacNair" I doubt that. I was born in 1944 and was circumcised though none of my known ancestors were Jewish. Back then it was simply normal procedure done for supposedly "hygenic" reasons to virtually everyone unless the parents demurred. Ed Ed Seedhouse, Victoria, B.C.
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thereactionary@mindspring.com wrote:
But ethnically he [Fischer] is half Jewish on his mothers side.
Indeed, he's half Jewish because his mother was Jewish, and he is (the other) half Jewish because his biological father was Jewish. Wlod
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Morphy's ghost wrote:
In the year of our Lord 25 Mar 2005 23:16:26 -0800, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)" <sennajawa@yahoo.com> wrote: Was his father?
Both of **biological** parents of Fischer were Jewish. (Of course for Nazists he would be Jewish. Since Fischer himself is a neoNazist, neoNazists quite hypocritically, support this son of Jews all the way, grateful for Fischer's hateful, degenerated statements).
I don't think that Fischer can be called a neo-Nazi. That requires a bit more than bigotry.
Fischer has advocated a mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews. That's why so many rgcm participants love Fischer these days so much. Wlod
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Cut the Bobby crap already. Bobby Fischer has been letting down American chess players since he walked out of the Interzonal at Sousse in 1967. He almost broke our hearts in 1972 and finally did in 1975. He will let down his new country as well. He's insane and will never play again.
We're not worthy, WE"RE NOT WORTHY.
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